Coleman, midfield or defense?

[RFUS]

I want us to have a mean defence. Unfortunately, because of the way Sylvain plays, I think our defending is always likely to be touch and go. He takes risks, so we will get caught sometimes.

Baines covers much more ground than the full back on the other side. He is constantly up and down the pitch, getting to the byeline and even in to the box. By contrast it's comparatively rare for either Neville or Hibbert to get in to the final third. They know if they tried to take someone on that they'd get caught on the ball, so once they cross the half way line they tend to look for a high diagonal ball in to the box. If we played both Baines and Coleman in a flat back four and told them to get forward as much as they like I guarantee that we would get mullered.

Haven't I made the point that Coleman would be best suited to being a right wing back? Wouldn't that compensate for his defensive flaws and allow him to get ahead of a midfielder?

I have a lot of respect for Mourinho and Steve Clarke (who no doubt suggested the idea to Dalglish). As far as I'm concerned, they're two of the most intelligent, forward-thinking coaches in the game. If they see fit to use the system, how can it be so bad? Maybe it's just that more 'steady' managers such as Moyes haven't caught on to it yet? He'll no doubt wake up to 4-2-3-1 next season, only 2 years too late! ;-)

Just because we'd have 2 fullbacks who like to get forward, doesn't mean they both have to get forward at the same time. And Neville and Hibbert increasingly got very far up the pitch last season. I remember dozens of times they were near the corner flag linking up with Coleman. I remember it so well because whenever Hibbo or Nev are on the ball I'm on the edge of my seat, anticipating the moment when they fudge it up and lose the ball!

As for 3 at the back, come on. Mourihno seemingly used it once against BARCELONA and Liverpool used it for a handful of games. That's hardly a ringing endorsement. Especially when, in your quest for having a watertight defence, you must be wanting us to play 3 at the back regularly. It would get found out. You're spot on about Moyes, mind. He's too slow to change things.

 

[billycopper]

Just because we'd have 2 fullbacks who like to get forward, doesn't mean they both have to get forward at the same time. And Neville and Hibbert increasingly got very far up the pitch last season. I remember dozens of times they were near the corner flag linking up with Coleman. I remember it so well because whenever Hibbo or Nev are on the ball I'm on the edge of my seat, anticipating the moment when they fudge it up and lose the ball!

As for 3 at the back, come on. Mourihno seemingly used it once against BARCELONA and Liverpool used it for a handful of games. That's hardly a ringing endorsement. Especially when, in your quest for having a watertight defence, you must be wanting us to play 3 at the back regularly. It would get found out. You're spot on about Moyes, mind. He's too slow to change things.

As things stand we very often get caught 2v2. Reading and Blackpool immediately spring to mind. If someone of Neville's experience doesn't know when to go and when to stay what hope will we have with Seamus there?

I know that Mourinho used it against Barca. I don't watch Inter regularly, so I can't tell you whether it was something that he'd been practicing. I would be very surprised though if he decided to use it just for that one game. They seemed well drilled. And, if it could stop the best strikeforce in the world and it had proved itself to be successful, why would he then abandon it? How would it get found out by Premier League teams if Messi and co couldn't find a way round, over or through it? Liverpool got away with using it even though they had players like Wilson and Flanagan in the side.

One other benefit of it is that the midfield would be less congested. Rather than being boxed in by his team mates or isolated on the flank, Arteta would be on the left of a three and would have space and freedom to exploit.

 

[Roztitute]

Coleman would make a great wingback, he's brill on the overlap. He needs to develop his defensive side obviously.

 

[billycopper]

Coleman would make a great wingback, he's brill on the overlap. He needs to develop his defensive side obviously.

It would be the perfect next step for him because he'd have more defensive responsibilities, but he'd still have the insurance of someone to cover for his runs forward.

 

[RFUS]

As things stand we very often get caught 2v2. Reading and Blackpool immediately spring to mind. If someone of Neville's experience doesn't know when to go and when to stay what hope will we have with Seamus there?

I know that Mourinho used it against Barca. I don't watch Inter regularly, so I can't tell you whether it was something that he'd been practicing. I would be very surprised though if he decided to use it just for that one game. They seemed well drilled. And, if it could stop the best strikeforce in the world and it had proved itself to be successful, why would he then abandon it? How would it get found out by Premier League teams if Messi and co couldn't find a way round, over or through it? Liverpool got away with using it even though they had players like Wilson and Flanagan in the side.

One other benefit of it is that the midfield would be less congested. Rather than being boxed in by his team mates or isolated on the flank, Arteta would be on the left of a three and would have space and freedom to exploit.

I'm just not going to argue this 3 at the back thing any more. It's a pointless argument because Moyes isn't ever going to go with 3 at the back, so I'm going to carry on thinking I'm right and you're going to carry on thinking you're right.

I am definitely right though.

 

[billycopper]

I'm just not going to argue this 3 at the back thing any more. It's a pointless argument because Moyes isn't ever going to go with 3 at the back, so I'm going to carry on thinking I'm right and you're going to carry on thinking you're right.

I am definitely right though.

One thing we can agree on is that the chances of Moyes going for it are slim to none. ;-) I'm still going to get the last word though. I'm right!

 

[RFUS]

One thing we can agree on is that the chances of Moyes going for it are slim to none. ;-) I'm still going to get the last word though. I'm right!

I disagree. They're not even slim chances.

 

[billycopper]

I disagree. They're not even slim chances.

He does seem to be evolving. We'd never have thought that he'd have played Coleman as a midfielder or two strikers before this season. He may just stumble upon it, especially if other teams use it more often. It could suit Spurs to have Walker and Bale as wingbacks for one.

 

[best little spaniard]

Guys, i'm sure you've just had a brilliant tactical debate there, but it's well too long for me to bother reading.


So i'm not sure if this point has been raised, but if we play 3 at the back we'll be playing all of our first team centre backs at once. So we'd have no cover, which is just asking for trouble if you ask me.

 

[RFUS]

He does seem to be evolving. We'd never have thought that he'd have played Coleman as a midfielder or two strikers before this season. He may just stumble upon it, especially if other teams use it more often. It could suit Spurs to have Walker and Bale as wingbacks for one.

Not for me. I remember begging for Coleman to be played at RM, and I remember others saying it too, months and months before Moyes finally did it. The same can be said for 2 strikers... just replace the word "months" with "years".

 

[billycopper]

Guys, i'm sure you've just had a brilliant tactical debate there, but it's well too long for me to bother reading.


So i'm not sure if this point has been raised, but if we play 3 at the back we'll be playing all of our first team centre backs at once. So we'd have no cover, which is just asking for trouble if you ask me.

It's a reasonable point. I think there are lots of options though. If we're going to turn Rodwell in to a centreback, he could play between Distin and Jags. Duffy or Mustafi could equally benefit from playing in between two seasoned pros (how else will they break in to the side?). The three players at the back don't even need to be centrebacks, they just need to be bodies. Hibbo has played centreback before, so being on the right of a defensive three shouldn't be too much of a stretch for him. I'm sure that Neville could do it too. In fact, that position could help to prolong his career, as he wouldn't have the onus to get forward that he has at full back and he wouldn't have to cover as much ground as he would as a midfield anchor.

 

[RFUS]

It's a reasonable point. I think there are lots of options though. If we're going to turn Rodwell in to a centreback, he could play between Distin and Jags. Duffy or Mustafi could equally benefit from playing in between two seasoned pros (how else will they break in to the side?). The three players at the back don't even need to be centrebacks, they just need to be bodies. Hibbo has played centreback before, so being on the right of a defensive three shouldn't be too much of a stretch for him. I'm sure that Neville could do it too. In fact, that position could help to prolong his career, as he wouldn't have the onus to get forward that he has at full back and he wouldn't have to cover as much ground as he would as a midfield anchor.

Surely playing 3 CBs for to sure up your defence... only to then make the extra CB an inexperienced youngster, kind of defeats the point?

 

[billycopper]

Not for me. I remember begging for Coleman to be played at RM, and I remember others saying it too, months and months before Moyes finally did it. The same can be said for 2 strikers... just replace the word "months" with "years".

I've been an advocate of both those moves myself. I really didn't think it would ever happen though. For me, this is the first year of his tenure that Moyes has broken with the tried and trusted and experimented with something different. Hopefully he's taken the positives from the experience and he will continue to try new things.

 

[RFUS]

I've been an advocate of both those moves myself. I really didn't think it would ever happen though. For me, this is the first year of his tenure that Moyes has broken with the tried and trusted and experimented with something different. Hopefully he's taken the positives from the experience and he will continue to try new things.

Only because he had to.

When Cahill went he changed it. When Cahill was back and just half-fit, he changed it back.

I still honestly believe, with a fully fit team, he will always go for a 4-4-1-1 with Cahill.

 

[best little spaniard]

It's a reasonable point. I think there are lots of options though. If we're going to turn Rodwell in to a centreback, he could play between Distin and Jags. Duffy or Mustafi could equally benefit from playing in between two seasoned pros (how else will they break in to the side?). The three players at the back don't even need to be centrebacks, they just need to be bodies. Hibbo has played centreback before, so being on the right of a defensive three shouldn't be too much of a stretch for him. I'm sure that Neville could do it too. In fact, that position could help to prolong his career, as he wouldn't have the onus to get forward that he has at full back and he wouldn't have to cover as much ground as he would as a midfield anchor.

Well argued, but centre backs are centre backs. They'd still be have to defend, i'm not sure just throwing anyone in there would work too well.