2020/21 Carlo Ancelotti

[Deulofeumygod]

Yep, game could have gone either way, with better finishing we could have been 3 up in that first half (but equally could have been three down). This idea that we’ve been battered by Leeds Newcastle and Liverpool just isn’t correct. Southampton and United were the most disappointing games for me this season that we never really looked in them. Newcastle we went away from home with all of our top players missing and dominated possession losing to a ridiculous penalty.

Finally some level headed posting.

Totally agree.

Soton we were poor and out performed in every area. United we switched off at key moments. Leeds we played well in patches, did not match their intensity and did not take our chances.

My biggest issue still is our cb pairing. Far too many mistakes and it looks like there is still a real lack of communication and understanding.

Pickford had a good game which is a plus and another day, his display earns a clean sheet.

His kicking kept giving the ball back to them which is another area that grates me.

 

[ForeverBlue92]

They got into the top 4 in his first full season in the job. They won a trophy in his 3rd full season. So neither of those examples is right. I agree we need to be patient, but it doesn't really help if people just make up terrible examples to back up their points to be honest.

Klopp also didnt have top players when he got that job.

Firmino and Coutinho aside the rest were dogs.

 

[Saint Domingo]

Klopp also didnt have top players when he got that job.

Firmino and Coutinho aside the rest were dogs.

So Emre Can, Henderson, Sakho, Milner, Lovren, Lallana were dogs? Add that to Firmino and Coutinho and it’s clear he didn’t pick up a rubbish squad. He was hardly laboured with Schneiderlin Davies Kenny Sigurdsson Niasse Martina was he.

 

[DanB90]

Klopp also didnt have top players when he got that job.

Firmino and Coutinho aside the rest were dogs.

They also had Milner, Henderson and Lallana. Not saying they’re tremedous players, but all 3 played big parts in their success the last couple of years.

Oh and your favourite ever player in Danny Ings.

 

[ForeverBlue92]

So Emre Can, Henderson, Sakho, Milner, Lovren, Lallana were dogs? Add that to Firmino and Coutinho and it’s clear he didn’t pick up a rubbish squad. He was hardly laboured with Schneiderlin Davies Kenny Sigurdsson Niasse Martina was he.

Henderson has only really improved since Klopp took over, Sakho is Mina lite and Milner/Lovren/Lallana are bang average.

Carlo has Rodriguez, Richarlison, DCL, Digne, Coleman, Allan - more than enough quality there to beating the likes of Newcastle, Saints & Leeds or atleast be getting a point on the road.

Im not calling for him to be sacked but to pretend he isn't underperforming right now is crazy.

 

[Toffeelover]

Well, to an extent, but we saw how out on the right at wing-back it was pretty clear Iwobi's instructions - and he did it well - were to get the ball, drive and either cross or run towards the area.

On the left he just slipped back into old, bad habits.

If he'd have put Nkounkou there, we'd have had a) a left-footer on that side rather than three right footers (Holgate, Iwobi, Richarlison), b) natural width, c) an actual left-back

Exactly what I said down to instructions Iwobi is a player for the right hand side not left - IMO poor management.

Also spot on about Niels- IMO again poor management.

I wish I knew what his thinking was about these selections/non selections.

 

[Toffeelover]

Henderson has only really improved since Klopp took over, Sakho is Mina lite and Milner/Lovren/Lallana are bang average.

Carlo has Rodriguez, Richarlison, DCL, Digne, Coleman, Allan - more than enough quality there to beating the likes of Newcastle, Saints & Leeds or atleast be getting a point on the road.

Im not calling for him to be sacked but to pretend he isn't underperforming right now is crazy.

Nail on head Mate.

 

[DanB90]

Anyway, we’ve seen on the whole a definite improvement under him. We’re going through a sticky patch, but our problems were never going to be solved in 12 months.

The fact is, we can’t carry on down the route of hiring and firing managers every time things get a bit grim, eventually we’re going to have to see one through.

Thankfully for us, the fella we now have in the hot seat, is one of the most successful managers about.

We might go on to lose another few games, and I’m sure there will be a few more patches along the way where we start asking questions. But we have to hope that we’ll get it right eventually.

Without the hope, what else have we got?

 

[Toffeelover]

Finally some level headed posting.

Totally agree.

Soton we were poor and out performed in every area. United we switched off at key moments. Leeds we played well in patches, did not match their intensity and did not take our chances.

My biggest issue still is our cb pairing. Far too many mistakes and it looks like there is still a real lack of communication and understanding.

Pickford had a good game which is a plus and another day, his display earns a clean sheet.

His kicking kept giving the ball back to them which is another area that grates me.

When it comes down to goals conceded this perhaps is the problem to much changing around, needs to make a pairing and stick with it, now take your choice on what that should be.

 

[Toffe3m4n]

Anyway, we’ve seen on the whole a definite improvement under him. We’re going through a sticky patch, but our problems were never going to be solved in 12 months.

The fact is, we can’t carry on down the route of hiring and firing managers every time things get a bit grim, eventually we’re going to have to see one through.

Thankfully for us, the fella we now have in the hot seat, is one of the most successful managers about.

We might go on to lose another few games, and I’m sure there will be a few more patches along the way where we start asking questions. But we have to hope that we’ll get it right eventually.

Without the hope, what else have we got?

This really.

Last chance saloon for me this - Ancelotti HAS to work otherwise there's just no point in us.

 

[Lanolin]

They also had Milner, Henderson and Lallana. Not saying they’re tremedous players, but all 3 played big parts in their success the last couple of years.

Oh and your favourite ever player in Danny Ings.

To be fair though, that's part of the issue. We've got plenty of people here making out like you can't possibly avoid losing to Leeds at home unless your team is full of top class players, but as you've highlighted there, you can. I actually think Henderson is better than a lot of people give him credit for, but the likes of Lallana and Milner really aren't special players at all, and yet they played a big part in their success because the manager put together a system which worked and which got the most out of them. I feel like we still haven't done that with our players and that's disappointing I think. On paper the squad really isn't that bad, truthfully I thought Ancelotti would have got more of a tune out of them than he has. We still look very unfit, disjointed, slow, disorganised etc. Those are things that could have been addressed in the last 11 months and yet it's honestly very difficult to see much difference between the way we play now and the way we did this time last year.

 

[Saint Domingo]

They got into the top 4 in his first full season in the job. They won a trophy in his 3rd full season. So neither of those examples is right. I agree we need to be patient, but it doesn't really help if people just make up terrible examples to back up their points to be honest.

Correct; but equally Klopp had 30 premier league games in 15/16 before his first full season when his team then came 4th after another 38. Ancelotti has only had 29 league games for us to this point. Klopp also had the europa league games, FA cup games, and league cup games that Rodgers left him upon handover as time to gel his team. Ancelotti only had the cup when he took over from Ferguson.

The like for like comparisons on this sort of thing are difficult but the general principle in my view remains that a manager needs time to improve things. It would be great if that improvement was always linear but it doesn’t always happen that way. Guardiola sneaking into 4th and not winning any trophies in his first season with the squad he had is a different milestone than Ancelotti taking this squad to 4th for example. It works the other way to though, if Ancelotti finishes 8th then it’s unfair to say ‘Guardiola at least finished 4th’ in his first full season. I think Jose called it football heritage, but regardless the conditions these managers picks up are completely different and their success criteria at different points will be different.

 

[ForeverBlue92]

When it comes down to goals conceded this perhaps is the problem to much changing around, needs to make a pairing and stick with it, now take your choice on what that should be.

He had the right set up with 433 - he just needed either Delph or Gbamin in there instead of Gomes who cant tackle/defend.

The fact he's started messing around with this 343 is crazy - go back to 433 and put Delph in the middle with Nkounkou at LB and stop messing around.

 

[DanB90]

To be fair though, that's part of the issue. We've got plenty of people here making out like you can't possibly avoid losing to Leeds at home unless your team is full of top class players, but as you've highlighted there, you can. I actually think Henderson is better than a lot of people give him credit for, but the likes of Lallana and Milner really aren't special players at all, and yet they played a big part in their success because the manager put together a system which worked and which got the most of them. I feel like we still haven't done that with our players and that's disappointing I think. On paper the squad really isn't that bad, truthfully I thought Ancelotti would have got more of a tune out of them than he has. We still look very unfit, disjointed, slow, disorganised etc. Those are things that could have been addressed in the last 11 months and yet it's honestly very difficult to see much difference between the way we play now and the way we did this time last year.

Oh 100% we’re underperforming at the minute mate, unquestionably.

One thing them three highlighted players had though, was tremendous grit and determination. Outside of Richarlison, (who had a poor game by his standards) how many players in our squad have shown this kind of attitude over the last few years?

Coleman called a load of them out on it at the back end of last season.

For balance though, he absolutely got the tactics wrong against Leeds.

 

[neil999]

@neil999

His head has detached and is now in orbit.

I would like him as chairman, a different manager every month