2020/21 Carlo Ancelotti

[John from Bootle]

This type of argumentation makes any kind of criticism and praise impossible. With this type of argument, neither the coach is responsible for loss nor victory. It's just a matter of calculation. Team A's players have the sum of 100, while Team B's players have the sum of 92. Team A will win no matter what.

It can also be discussed whether Southampton and Newcastle have a better squad than Everton. Think most neutrals disagree with this. Regardless, if you are the owner of a football club, then you should not spend a lot of money on paying coaches. As they are an irrelevant factor.

Nope. The results are taken in context. We're 7th in the table and have lost what. 3 out of 11? It's about what you'd expect a good manager to get out of this squad.

 

[Lanolin]

It's the context of the moaning. We lost the last 3 matches because the squad is rubbish. Not because of the manager.

But you're right, people will always moan. We could win the lot, and the FIFA warriors would be rebuilding the squad for next seasons assault quicker than you can say mum's basement.

That's an extraordinarily simplistic way of looking at football.

 

[John from Bootle]

That's an extraordinarily simplistic way of looking at football.

Not in context it's not.

And football is a simple game. The teams with the best players tend to consistently do well.

 

[Lanolin]

Not in context it's not.

And football is a simple game. The teams with the best players tend to consistently do well.

But what is the context? Are you saying that if we lose the next 2 games, and so have actually lost more games than we've won, then Ancelotti will suddenly be doing badly? That seems a bit kneejerk if i'm honest. But if that's not what you're saying then it's nothing to do with context is it? Because the team isn't that bad.

The second part of what you're saying i agree with, but i've said loads of times, people massively overstate how bad things were when he took over. The team he took over had not finished lower than 8th in the previous 3 seasons, this idea that it's going to take him 4 years and £500m to get us to 7th is just bizarre. People use ridiculous examples like Klopp taking a while to get Liverpool going. Leaving aside the fact that he didn't really, he completely changed their style of play, it was obvious watching them that they were getting better, and also that some players wouldn't suit the new style. I don't really think we've done that at all. We play in a different formation, but the style of play (such as it is) is pretty much the same. Aside from the 4 game run, there really hasn't been a lot to get excited about, and that's disappointing. The idea that 'people want him sacked' is just rubbish really. Maybe the odd crackpot but it's quite clearly not even in the thoughts of the huge majority. He should be questioned though, and he needs to start finding some answers.

 

[Nymzee]

Paul Clement on Carlo Ancelotti: 'If I were a player, I'd love to play for him'

Clement expected to run Chelsea reserves for Ancelotti. Instead they formed a partnership that conquered Europe

www.theguardian.com

The room fell silent. Every player was suddenly rendered mute by a question they’d never had to answer before. I stood at the front door with a marker pen in hand and a flip chart beside me, ready to write. A few feet away stood the Chelsea manager and my boss, Carlo Ancelotti. The two of us were waiting, expectant.

It was the night before the 2010 FA Cup final, when Avram Grant’s Portsmouth were set to provide the last remaining obstacle in Chelsea’s attempt to win a first Premier League and FA Cup double in the club’s history. Less than a week earlier Carlo and I had celebrated in the dugout as these now muted players secured the league title with an 8-0 thrashing of Wigan on the final day of the season. But in the back of our minds we were already thinking about Wembley.

“This is the last game of the season. We know what we’re able to do and we know the opposition. What do you think the tactics should be?” Carlo’s question silenced a group of players not renowned for being shy. They weren’t used to being asked for their thoughts; their ideas. But, gradually, baffled expressions turned into ones of contemplation, and then the hands went up. I started writing.

Petr Cech, John Terry, Frank Lampard – all three made key contributions that night – and as the others warmed to the idea, more got involved. I scribbled notes down as fast as I could and, before you knew it, we had a list of defending points and a list of attacking ones. That was it. The tactics were decided; the team talk was done and the next day the players went on and delivered. A 1-0 victory; a historic double; a player-led approach.

Sometimes coaches are scared to give that responsibility to the players. But ultimately that’s what it’s all about. When a game goes on, how much can a coach influence what’s happening, in a full stadium where the noise is deafening and you can’t get information across to the players? They need to be able to make those decisions in split-second moments. The more responsibility the players take, the better.

That’s just one thing I learned from Carlo. There is so much more. As a coach and a tactician he taught me an incredible amount. But equally important is what I learned from him as a person. I watched how he dealt with people and relationships, managing to be strong in his ways and ideas and to make sure that the dressing room was a disciplined place, while at the same time developing strong relationships with players. He made them feel comfortable. He got the best out of them. He also did the same for me.

I remember when I first heard Carlo’s name being linked with Chelsea, in the period after Guus Hiddink left. I’d never met him before, but I’d seen his teams play. First when he managed Juventus and they played Manchester United in the 1999 Champions League semi-final. Then at Milan, where he had so much success – particularly in the Champions League. Different names had been spoken about as replacements for Guus, but when I heard Carlo’s I thought: “How amazing would it be for someone with his experience to come to our club and potentially give me the opportunity to watch and learn?”

I was the reserve team coach at the time, but Guus had given me a taste of working at first-team level during his four months at Chelsea. It was a brilliant experience, but when he left my thoughts were that I’d go back to my role with the reserve team. It didn’t stay that way for long. Carlo came to the club with one assistant whose strengths were really in sports psychology, and Ray Wilkins stayed on as his assistant manager. But he needed one more coach in his team.

Frank Arnesen was Chelsea’s sporting director at the time and I’d worked closely with him in the academy. It was he who put me forward. “Why don’t you have a look at Paul? He’s been here for the past four years and has some skills that could possibly help you.”

For the first two weeks it was like I was on trial. I went with Carlo and the first team to the US on tour, but when we got back I told him it was probably best if I went back to work with the reserve team. “No, no. The best experience for you would be to come and work with me. We’ll be successful. You’ll enjoy it.” There was no turning down that opportunity.

Over time, as I moved with Carlo from Chelsea to Paris Saint-Germain, Real Madrid and Bayern Munich, he gave me more and more responsibility, on which I thrived. But initially, I think what he liked in me was that I brought some organisation. I was a good planner and I knew lots of different exercises. Those were the kind of skills he needed, based on the ones he and Ray Wilkins had. We worked well as a team.

There was one thing that really impressed me about Carlo, both at Chelsea and beyond. Almost 50 years old when he came to England, he didn’t really have any language skills. He’d spent his whole career playing and coaching in Italy. Now he was embarking on a journey of Europe where he would embrace the different cultures and the languages. He learned English, learned French, learned Spanish, more recently German – and all in his 50s.

He would study in the afternoons or after training with a language coach, determined to improve because he knew how important communication was to being a manager. When you’re a coach on the training field, you can get away with it a bit more. But when you’re the manager, you have to communicate not only with players but also the media, the ownership and the fans. It’s vital.

One conversation from our time together at Chelsea will remain forever ingrained on my memory. “If there’s a time that I leave this club and go to work elsewhere, would you be interested in coming with me as my assistant?” When Carlo asked me that question, I had no idea where saying “yes” would take me; no sense of the opportunities it would lead to. If anyone had shown me a snapshot of what was to follow, I probably would have laughed – a lot.

My phone rang. Seven months had passed since Carlo had left Chelsea; six since I followed him out of the door. “I’ve been offered the manager’s job at Paris Saint-Germain. Do you want to come?” I’d not long started work at Blackburn, where I was assisting the manager, Steve Kean. I had a wife and two children to think about, too, but I knew that joining Carlo was the right step for my career.

Some 18 months later, the next step became clear. “Real Madrid have contacted me. There’s a chance we could go there.” Carlo’s words hung in the air. I wanted to grab hold of them to see if they were real. It was like a dream. It was the dream.

I worked with Carlo in four different countries, leagues and languages. Despite the changing environment he was always consistent, not only in his messages to the players and in his personality, but in the way he managed success and times of difficulty.
https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...ck-charlton-illuminated-ireland-changed-lives
I never saw him get too high, and never too low. As a relatively young coach at senior level, I learned a lot from that level-headed approach. Later on, in my time as a manager at Derby County and then Swansea, I often went back to those times. I recalled different situations and the ways in which Carlo managed them. “What would Carlo do?”

Having worked side by side with him for so many years, I’m often asked how I would describe Carlo as a manager. The best way I can answer is to say that if I were a player, I would love to play for a coach like him. He is by far the greatest influence on my career.

 

[andy4efc]

A manager of Carlo's experience and expertise shouldn't be absolutely lost when one player is out for 3 matches. The team performances almost everywhere was absolutely dire. That's literally his job to make sure that the team is prepared and performs how he instructs them to. Hell, I love Carlo, he can have as long as he wants. Problem is, he needs to produce something this year otherwise Richarlison is off. And we all have seen how we play without him.

I''ve made this point before though. We are in that case having to ask players who have PROVEN themselves not up to it, to suddenly play above their level. I'd understand if he had more of his players and wasn't getting anything out of them in reserve, I'd be with you.

However Gylfi, Gomes (to a degree, I think he is overvalued by some), Delph, Bernard, Iwobi, Tosun, Walcott, Mina, JJK. All have been crap for the most part before CA, so why are we expecting more? I would have included Keane in that but he really seems to have reached his potential under CA (maybe because CA doesn't want to ahve him exposed out wide).

We have to be patient, like any new manager. It should be a hell of a lot easier to be patient for a man who has proven himself time and time again as a manager. He's also shown he will bring higher quality of players in too. It wont be easy, we will lose games that we shouldn't sometimes because we are missing Digne, or RIchy, or James.

 

[Sverre Takleifbotten]

Nope. The results are taken in context. We're 7th in the table and have lost what. 3 out of 11? It's about what you'd expect a good manager to get out of this squad.

In statistics, you look at the big picture, while the context is the match. Right now the sample size is too small - there are 3 points down to 15th place. It does not work so that you automatically start winning matches, and playing good football, after you have done the opposite.

 

[APN_EFC]

This type of argumentation makes any kind of criticism and praise impossible. With this type of argument, neither the coach is responsible for loss nor victory. It's just a matter of calculation. Team A's players have the sum of 100, while Team B's players have the sum of 92. Team A will win no matter what.

It can also be discussed whether Southampton and Newcastle have a better squad than Everton. Think most neutrals disagree with this. Regardless, if you are the owner of a football club, then you should not spend a lot of money on paying coaches. As they are an irrelevant factor.

I get what you're saying, but we're assuming that
ANcelotti is good
He's doing his best
And therefore the players can't be that good.
Trying to be logical and dispassionate!

 

[andy4efc]

I''ve made this point before though. We are in that case having to ask players who have PROVEN themselves not up to it, to suddenly play above their level. I'd understand if he had more of his players and wasn't getting anything out of them in reserve, I'd be with you.

However Gylfi, Gomes (to a degree, I think he is overvalued by some), Delph, Bernard, Iwobi, Tosun, Walcott, Mina, JJK. All have been crap for the most part before CA, so why are we expecting more? I would have included Keane in that but he really seems to have reached his potential under CA (maybe because CA doesn't want to ahve him exposed out wide).

We have to be patient, like any new manager. It should be a hell of a lot easier to be patient for a man who has proven himself time and time again as a manager. He's also shown he will bring higher quality of players in too. It wont be easy, we will lose games that we shouldn't sometimes because we are missing Digne, or RIchy, or James.

I got distracted by work while editing this @riddick this is what i was meant to put;

I''ve made this point before though. We are in that case having to ask players who have PROVEN themselves not up to it, to suddenly play above their level. I'd understand if he had more of his players and wasn't getting anything out of them in reserve, I'd be with you.

However Gylfi, Gomes (to a degree, I think he is overvalued by some), Delph, Bernard, Iwobi, Tosun, Walcott, Mina, JJK. All have been crap for the most part before CA, so why are we expecting more? I would have included Keane in that but he really seems to have reached his potential under CA (maybe because CA doesn't want to ahve him exposed out wide).

We have to be patient, like any new manager. It should be a hell of a lot easier to be patient for a man who has proven himself time and time again as a manager. He's also shown he will bring higher quality of players in too. It wont be easy, we will lose games that we shouldn't sometimes because we are missing Digne, or RIchy, or James.

Also @riddick im not saying you we're arguing against that, just that we need to take into account. We have been crying out for a man like CA for god knows how long, my lifetime (29 years, was too young for 95). I'm the most pessimisitc of blues because the general jist of it for my time going the match has been "Build you up to smack you down".

For the first time I'm really positive about the long-term future. Yes it will be painful at first butw e will also have some great moments along it too (the start was incredible, but if you'd have said to me before the season we'd have this start I'd have probably taken it. We are well still in with a shout, we do need some improvements from new players and from old, but ultimately over time we will get better and more consistent hopefully.

 

[riddick]

I got distracted by work while editing this @riddick this is what i was meant to put;

I''ve made this point before though. We are in that case having to ask players who have PROVEN themselves not up to it, to suddenly play above their level. I'd understand if he had more of his players and wasn't getting anything out of them in reserve, I'd be with you.

However Gylfi, Gomes (to a degree, I think he is overvalued by some), Delph, Bernard, Iwobi, Tosun, Walcott, Mina, JJK. All have been crap for the most part before CA, so why are we expecting more? I would have included Keane in that but he really seems to have reached his potential under CA (maybe because CA doesn't want to ahve him exposed out wide).

We have to be patient, like any new manager. It should be a hell of a lot easier to be patient for a man who has proven himself time and time again as a manager. He's also shown he will bring higher quality of players in too. It wont be easy, we will lose games that we shouldn't sometimes because we are missing Digne, or RIchy, or James.

Also @riddick im not saying you we're arguing against that, just that we need to take into account. We have been crying out for a man like CA for god knows how long, my lifetime (29 years, was too young for 95). I'm the most pessimisitc of blues because the general jist of it for my time going the match has been "Build you up to smack you down".

For the first time I'm really positive about the long-term future. Yes it will be painful at first butw e will also have some great moments along it too (the start was incredible, but if you'd have said to me before the season we'd have this start I'd have probably taken it. We are well still in with a shout, we do need some improvements from new players and from old, but ultimately over time we will get better and more consistent hopefully.

I'm not calling for Carlo to be sacked at all but it's undeniable that he got it wrong the last 3 matches. I can "excuse" the Southampton match because they did that last year as well and that seems to be a problem with a very high and intense press but to lose to a very poor Utd and Newcastle? That's really inexcusable. At the VERY least if he knows his entire gameplan revolves around Richarlison, he should be making us hard to beat. And, yet, the last 3 we've let in 7 goals. We've let in 2 or more in every match this season bar the first. We've brought in damn near a world class foward and someone who was touted for 90m a year before along with another 20m midfielder and we're stiiilllllll poor in midfield. Is all this on Carlo? Of course not. But he watches the team in training every week and then, more importantly, he watches the team when it actually matters and he STILL picks players like Gylfi.

No manager should ever be immune from criticism or questioning. We have no idea what our plan B is when Richarlison is out and that's massively worrying because it's unlikely he'll be here next year unless we make CL or win a trophy. Does anyone know what Doucoure is supposed to be doing? Or we need at least 3 goals to win every match so far bar 1? I don't think these are unrealistic questions to ask someone of Carlo's level. Carlo is here for the long term and I doubt we ever sack him at all which I'm fine with. We've tried everything else, if we cannot get the players to respond to someone like Carlo then we truly are screwed.

 

[Baines' left foot]

Get shut

You utter degenerates

 

[DanB90]

I'm not calling for Carlo to be sacked at all but it's undeniable that he got it wrong the last 3 matches. I can "excuse" the Southampton match because they did that last year as well and that seems to be a problem with a very high and intense press but to lose to a very poor Utd and Newcastle? That's really inexcusable.

The Newcastle game was shocking, but I read the other day that Man Utd are on their best run of premier league away games since 1993 or something.
They’ve been a bit weird this season, but let’s not pretend they aren’t a handy side with one of the most stacked squads in the league.

 

[andy4efc]

I'm not calling for Carlo to be sacked at all but it's undeniable that he got it wrong the last 3 matches. I can "excuse" the Southampton match because they did that last year as well and that seems to be a problem with a very high and intense press but to lose to a very poor Utd and Newcastle? That's really inexcusable. At the VERY least if he knows his entire gameplan revolves around Richarlison, he should be making us hard to beat. And, yet, the last 3 we've let in 7 goals. We've let in 2 or more in every match this season bar the first. We've brought in damn near a world class foward and someone who was touted for 90m a year before along with another 20m midfielder and we're stiiilllllll poor in midfield. Is all this on Carlo? Of course not. But he watches the team in training every week and then, more importantly, he watches the team when it actually matters and he STILL picks players like Gylfi.

No manager should ever be immune from criticism or questioning. We have no idea what our plan B is when Richarlison is out and that's massively worrying because it's unlikely he'll be here next year unless we make CL or win a trophy. Does anyone know what Doucoure is supposed to be doing? Or we need at least 3 goals to win every match so far bar 1?

It's okay to question. Problem is though you say still picks players like Gylfi and yet nobody else in the 'reserves' is any better. I'm not saying you're wrong to question like. Losing to United was by no means inexusable. United have bags of ability in that squad midfield forwards and when they turn up they can do real damage so to lose to them isn't the worst thing where we astand now. They're a bit up and down but they have so much ability in that squad. Would take most of their attackers over most of ours any day. Newcastle was truly poor I agree and Saints Im the other way, if they did that last year why did we not expect it? Or we did expect it and the players didnt turn up.

I get what you are saying re: Richy, and you are right, we cant rely on one player. However we aren't but James has had an 'uncomfortable' injury clearly and when the other attacking threat goes they can just surround him. I do think this problem is solved over time though, we can't go and buy 8 players to all play at once etc. As I've said, we are still having to rely on players who proved before CA they weren't up to it. CA has no choice in this matter whether it be Iwobi, Gylfi or BErnard he chooses to replace Richy. We are STILL struggling from previous poor recruitment because WHY would anyone want to buy these players who are overpaid for what they provide?

RE: Midfield. I Agree with Doucoure, I'm not entirely sure what his role is anymore and the defence has been poor all season not just the past 3 games.

Not saying he is immune from criticism, never said that, just said that we have to be patient as we still have many players who are not CA's picks and despite his wonderful record he is not a miracle worker. It will take time and he will make errors along the way, but hopefully those errors will show him which players are not going to do what he asks. If the rumours of Isco are true, then clearly he's identified that we are struggling with players to take real responsibility on the ball in that "attacking midfield".

 

[Simon Buttle]

I'm not calling for Carlo to be sacked at all but it's undeniable that he got it wrong the last 3 matches. I can "excuse" the Southampton match because they did that last year as well and that seems to be a problem with a very high and intense press but to lose to a very poor Utd and Newcastle? That's really inexcusable. At the VERY least if he knows his entire gameplan revolves around Richarlison, he should be making us hard to beat. And, yet, the last 3 we've let in 7 goals. We've let in 2 or more in every match this season bar the first. We've brought in damn near a world class foward and someone who was touted for 90m a year before along with another 20m midfielder and we're stiiilllllll poor in midfield. Is all this on Carlo? Of course not. But he watches the team in training every week and then, more importantly, he watches the team when it actually matters and he STILL picks players like Gylfi.

No manager should ever be immune from criticism or questioning. We have no idea what our plan B is when Richarlison is out and that's massively worrying because it's unlikely he'll be here next year unless we make CL or win a trophy. Does anyone know what Doucoure is supposed to be doing? Or we need at least 3 goals to win every match so far bar 1? I don't think these are unrealistic questions to ask someone of Carlo's level. Carlo is here for the long term and I doubt we ever sack him at all which I'm fine with. We've tried everything else, if we cannot get the players to respond to someone like Carlo then we truly are screwed.

As good as he is, i don't actually think Richarlison is quite at the level just yet where the entire team should revolve around him. Also a manager on £11m a year should know a lot better than to rely on one player and have no plan B. Nobody is immune from criticism whether it's Carlo or Silva or anyone but to call for his head is madness (if anyones doing that they need to stick to FIFA/FM) i am not going to even make a judgment on anything till we have played at least 10 games tbh.

 

[Lanolin]

It's okay to question. Problem is though you say still picks players like Gylfi and yet nobody else in the 'reserves' is any better. I'm not saying you're wrong to question like. Losing to United was by no means inexusable. United have bags of ability in that squad midfield forwards and when they turn up they can do real damage so to lose to them isn't the worst thing where we astand now. They're a bit up and down but they have so much ability in that squad. Would take most of their attackers over most of ours any day. Newcastle was truly poor I agree and Saints Im the other way, if they did that last year why did we not expect it? Or we did expect it and the players didnt turn up.

I get what you are saying re: Richy, and you are right, we cant rely on one player. However we aren't but James has had an 'uncomfortable' injury clearly and when the other attacking threat goes they can just surround him. I do think this problem is solved over time though, we can't go and buy 8 players to all play at once etc. As I've said, we are still having to rely on players who proved before CA they weren't up to it. CA has no choice in this matter whether it be Iwobi, Gylfi or BErnard he chooses to replace Richy. We are STILL struggling from previous poor recruitment because WHY would anyone want to buy these players who are overpaid for what they provide?

RE: Midfield. I Agree with Doucoure, I'm not entirely sure what his role is anymore and the defence has been poor all season not just the past 3 games.

Not saying he is immune from criticism, never said that, just said that we have to be patient as we still have many players who are not CA's picks and despite his wonderful record he is not a miracle worker. It will take time and he will make errors along the way, but hopefully those errors will show him which players are not going to do what he asks. If the rumours of Isco are true, then clearly he's identified that we are struggling with players to take real responsibility on the ball in that "attacking midfield".

I agree with you in the main. I think it's important to note though, that he'll probably never get the team he wants. He's going to have to make do with less than ideal players for at least the next couple of years, if not permanently. I think it's fair to expect him to get a little bit more out of what we've got to be honest, you'd be hard pushed to say that anyone other than DCL has really kicked on over the last 10 months, and that's disappointing.

I'd say the general consensus would be that next year (assuming we keep the same set up etc) we'll need a new keeper, right back, third midfielder and attacker of some variety. That's just the key ones. Then i think it's almost guaranteed that Richarlison will want to go if we haven't achieved anything. Then we'll get the whole 'you can't lose your best player and bring 5/6 new players in and expect them all to gel' argument and all of a sudden it's 2 and a half years down the line and you're no further on. At some point we've got to actually show serious improvement, otherwise all this flashing the cash is just a complete waste.