2020/21 Carlo Ancelotti

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Bebeto said:
To be fair he has a point...Big Sam finished 8th...and he got sacked...Ancelotti has finished 10th and had a terrible end of the season. Strange line up at times...like he had no idea how to solve it. And his attitude towards james is unforgivable...he is different towards the other players and James cannot do wrong it seems. The pic from the plane in any other professional football club would have resulted on that player to be transfer listed....not here it seems
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No it wouldnt. You just made that up.
 
Kever10 said:
I agree, but the problem within that is we went from Moyes to Martinez with no directors in place. Then we got a new owner and appointed our 1st DOF and a new manager who made it very clear that the previous manager was totally wrong about everything and went out of his way to do everything the opposite way to prove it. This meant alienating and replacing almost half of an entire squad in 2 years, and it failed spectacularly and expensively. So we appointed a 2nd manager to try and fix his mess, and let's be fair to Allardyce, we all knew it was a temporary, damage limitation tactic. Allardyce said what we all knew, the squad was a mess, but he wasnt well liked, so everyone dismissed it.

So we go and get a new Director of football and a new manager, both of whom felt that the previous approach was wrong. This negates the consistency of the DOF approach, as it was a complete reset. The new manager had similar ideas/ideals to Martinez, and was once again, a complete 180 from the previous approach. Unfortunately, like Martinez and Koeman before him, he was so stubborn and inflexible, that he refused to alter his approach for anyone, and if plan A didn't work, plan B was trying plan A again. On top of this, he was about as charismatic a leader as Gary Megson, and he had neither the tactical nous nor the gravitas or pull to alter things in a different way. At least Koeman was a name, even if he was an arrogant bully who didn't care. But safe to say, it didn't work. Again.

Then, the stars aligned, and we had the opportunity to sign Ancelotti, 1 of the best most revered coaches in the world. On top of being available, he brings experience, exposure, calmness, connections, and a track record of winning. He is also a student of the game, trained under Arrigo Sacchi and is tactically astute as well as pragmatic, something we have been calling out for for years.

But the problem with appointing someone of his calibre, is people expect miracles.

The squad was patchy when Martinez failed to get players to believe in his methods.

Koeman made a bad squad worse by selling 3 of the best young stars in the squad and wasting hundreds of millions on overly expensive, older, bang average journeyman players in hopes of a quick fix to make us the best of the rest.

Allardyce took over his mess and realised there were no goals in the team, so spent another small fortune on 2 more quick fix short term signings.

Silva went the other way and spent even more money on expensive cast offs (and Richarlison) from other teams.

Ancelotti is 1 COVID interrupted year in to trying to fix 7 years of topsy turvy mis management and is left with the onerous task of the squad rebuild Moyes left us with in 2013, but hamstrung by the expensive flops that prevent any meaningful movement 1 way or the other.

He needs 2 years minimum from now, and if that means 2 years of treading water until we are in a position to challenge again, then so be it. Sometimes you need to take a step back to take 2 steps forward, and this seems like 1 of those occasions. We need a bit of patience.

Football is never ending. Not getting Europe in year 1 is not a big deal in the grand scheme of things.
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A superb post. Rational, sensible and more importantly, true.

All the "style and identity" bedwetters in here need to read this. Then read it again and again until you understand the situation we're in.
 
Kever10 said:
While no one has explicitly mentioned waving a magic wand, expecting him to fix the wrongs of 7 years in 1.5 COVID interrupted seasons and have us playing a certain brand of football that the man himself has told us the squad are not capable of doing, is pretty much the next best thing.

In terms of us not having settled on a recruitment strategy, I fail to see how you have come to that conclusion, when he has essentially had 1 summer window to implement it, and we are not privy to what goes on behind closed doors. If you are going to point to signings made since he took over, I would suggest that Branthwaite, Nkounkou and Godfrey point to a strategy of signing good young potential, while the signings of Allan, Doucoure and James all point to us attempting to address the woeful options we had at our disposal in midfield by instilling some instant quality. I dread to think where we would be if we had not had any of those signings this year.

No true strategy will be apparent 1 year in, 1 year in which a global pandemic affected the ability to operate, both in terms of logistics and finances, not to mention the balancing of books thanks to previous spending on players who are not at the required level and/or where signed by different regimes to play different styles of football.

As for a style of play, while it might not be what we all want, I would argue a well organised, hard working team set up to counter teams has been particularly effective, given we have won our biggest number of away games since the 80s, including 6 Away wins and 1 draw against the 9 teams who finished above us. We also did well in games that we took a lead, which shows a level of tactical nous and organisation we could've only dreamed of in years gone by. Hopefully this means that by adding quality to that foundation, we can build on this going forward. And yes, the home form was disastrous, but always against teams who we were expected to be on the front foot, which again, only highlights the obvious lack of quality that has been pointed out ad nauseum.

Like i said, both in terms of implementing a recruitment strategy and implementing a style of play, it's going to take time. As good a manager as he is, he was never going to turn this squad into 2007 AC Milan simply by being nice to them, but as a diplomatic man, he was never going to push them all under a bus and create enemies the way Koeman did either. He still needed to keep them onside as he knew he had to deal with them. He is not a fool though, he will know they are not good enough.

Roughly 60 pages of kneejerk reactions in this thread since the final whistle yesterday suggests that collectively, people either do not have the required patience, or they assumed he was going to wave his magic wand. Sadly, it doesn't exist
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Probably the best post in this entire thread
 
Lanolin said:
Ah the old ‘everyone who doesn’t see things exactly the same as me is a knee jerking bedwetter’ argument. Always good when that one comes out.

If you see things that make you think we’re going in the right direction that’s great. I genuinely don’t, but footballs like that isn’t it? In a couple of months time I might be wondering why I was concerned but I can only comment on how I see it, and I’ve laid that out already so I won’t bore you doing it again

I’m not an impatient or entitled fan. I repeatedly said that silva should get more time and I’ve already said to you I think ancelotti should too. I want to see signs of progress though, and won’t be rushing to build a statue of him if ‘not often losing games that we score first in’ is still one of the most positive things you can think of about his tenure this time next year.
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Ah the old "Ah the old blah blah argument" argument. The dismissive way of derailing a valid point, when there are literally people calling for him to be sacked. And you talk about your straw man arguments.

You may very well believe he should be given time, but you argue for the side of those who think it's perfectly valid to sack a manager after 1 season, our 5th manager in as many years I might add.

And yes, I do see positives. Because I choose to. I've seen negatives too. But I'm realistic enough to know that there are circumstances that have enabled them and prevented a full turn around. The project will take time. Which is all I'm saying. I'm calling for patience, as has been the core of all of my posts.

Noone is calling for a statue to be built just yet, that's getting a little ahead of yourself in the sarcastic hyperbole stakes. People just don't want what was obviously a disappointing end to a season of marginal improvement to end in an unnecessary witch hunt.

As far as my point about holding a lead, that points to a well drilled team, set out tactically to win tight games by the odd goal. It's something we have been unable to do for a long time, and yes, I see it as a positive. We were essentially 1 or 2 goals short of ending the season comfortably in a European spot. Unfortunately, we fell short thanks to a lack of quality. Hopefully that is addressed in the next coupe of months and we can try and improve again next year.
 
Kever10 said:
I agree, but the problem within that is we went from Moyes to Martinez with no directors in place. Then we got a new owner and appointed our 1st DOF and a new manager who made it very clear that the previous manager was totally wrong about everything and went out of his way to do everything the opposite way to prove it. This meant alienating and replacing almost half of an entire squad in 2 years, and it failed spectacularly and expensively. So we appointed a 2nd manager to try and fix his mess, and let's be fair to Allardyce, we all knew it was a temporary, damage limitation tactic. Allardyce said what we all knew, the squad was a mess, but he wasnt well liked, so everyone dismissed it.

So we go and get a new Director of football and a new manager, both of whom felt that the previous approach was wrong. This negates the consistency of the DOF approach, as it was a complete reset. The new manager had similar ideas/ideals to Martinez, and was once again, a complete 180 from the previous approach. Unfortunately, like Martinez and Koeman before him, he was so stubborn and inflexible, that he refused to alter his approach for anyone, and if plan A didn't work, plan B was trying plan A again. On top of this, he was about as charismatic a leader as Gary Megson, and he had neither the tactical nous nor the gravitas or pull to alter things in a different way. At least Koeman was a name, even if he was an arrogant bully who didn't care. But safe to say, it didn't work. Again.

Then, the stars aligned, and we had the opportunity to sign Ancelotti, 1 of the best most revered coaches in the world. On top of being available, he brings experience, exposure, calmness, connections, and a track record of winning. He is also a student of the game, trained under Arrigo Sacchi and is tactically astute as well as pragmatic, something we have been calling out for for years.

But the problem with appointing someone of his calibre, is people expect miracles.

The squad was patchy when Martinez failed to get players to believe in his methods.

Koeman made a bad squad worse by selling 3 of the best young stars in the squad and wasting hundreds of millions on overly expensive, older, bang average journeyman players in hopes of a quick fix to make us the best of the rest.

Allardyce took over his mess and realised there were no goals in the team, so spent another small fortune on 2 more quick fix short term signings.

Silva went the other way and spent even more money on expensive cast offs (and Richarlison) from other teams.

Ancelotti is 1 COVID interrupted year in to trying to fix 7 years of topsy turvy mis management and is left with the onerous task of the squad rebuild Moyes left us with in 2013, but hamstrung by the expensive flops that prevent any meaningful movement 1 way or the other.

He needs 2 years minimum from now, and if that means 2 years of treading water until we are in a position to challenge again, then so be it. Sometimes you need to take a step back to take 2 steps forward, and this seems like 1 of those occasions. We need a bit of patience.

Football is never ending. Not getting Europe in year 1 is not a big deal in the grand scheme of things.
Click to expand...
Great Post kev, defo couple of seasons needed to sort this squad out.
 

Kever10 said:
I agree, but the problem within that is we went from Moyes to Martinez with no directors in place. Then we got a new owner and appointed our 1st DOF and a new manager who made it very clear that the previous manager was totally wrong about everything and went out of his way to do everything the opposite way to prove it. This meant alienating and replacing almost half of an entire squad in 2 years, and it failed spectacularly and expensively. So we appointed a 2nd manager to try and fix his mess, and let's be fair to Allardyce, we all knew it was a temporary, damage limitation tactic. Allardyce said what we all knew, the squad was a mess, but he wasnt well liked, so everyone dismissed it.

So we go and get a new Director of football and a new manager, both of whom felt that the previous approach was wrong. This negates the consistency of the DOF approach, as it was a complete reset. The new manager had similar ideas/ideals to Martinez, and was once again, a complete 180 from the previous approach. Unfortunately, like Martinez and Koeman before him, he was so stubborn and inflexible, that he refused to alter his approach for anyone, and if plan A didn't work, plan B was trying plan A again. On top of this, he was about as charismatic a leader as Gary Megson, and he had neither the tactical nous nor the gravitas or pull to alter things in a different way. At least Koeman was a name, even if he was an arrogant bully who didn't care. But safe to say, it didn't work. Again.

Then, the stars aligned, and we had the opportunity to sign Ancelotti, 1 of the best most revered coaches in the world. On top of being available, he brings experience, exposure, calmness, connections, and a track record of winning. He is also a student of the game, trained under Arrigo Sacchi and is tactically astute as well as pragmatic, something we have been calling out for for years.

But the problem with appointing someone of his calibre, is people expect miracles.

The squad was patchy when Martinez failed to get players to believe in his methods.

Koeman made a bad squad worse by selling 3 of the best young stars in the squad and wasting hundreds of millions on overly expensive, older, bang average journeyman players in hopes of a quick fix to make us the best of the rest.

Allardyce took over his mess and realised there were no goals in the team, so spent another small fortune on 2 more quick fix short term signings.

Silva went the other way and spent even more money on expensive cast offs (and Richarlison) from other teams.

Ancelotti is 1 COVID interrupted year in to trying to fix 7 years of topsy turvy mis management and is left with the onerous task of the squad rebuild Moyes left us with in 2013, but hamstrung by the expensive flops that prevent any meaningful movement 1 way or the other.

He needs 2 years minimum from now, and if that means 2 years of treading water until we are in a position to challenge again, then so be it. Sometimes you need to take a step back to take 2 steps forward, and this seems like 1 of those occasions. We need a bit of patience.

Football is never ending. Not getting Europe in year 1 is not a big deal in the grand scheme of things.
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Your on fire today another great post.
 

Pb34np said:
Totally agree. It’s the manager. Love him and the boards ambition in getting him but his best skills are managing a bunch of elite footballers and egos. We aren’t going to have that for many years. we have good players and should be top6 this season. Carlo is lovely guy and great manager but pretty sure I stated in earlier comments probably a little lazy and under focussed. Still uncomfortable he was allowed to bring in family
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I don't think lazy or unfocused is the right term. I genuinely think he tries extremely hard. I just think he's been found a bit short of ideas this season. A lot of that is due to the players at his disposal, but I'd have thought a manager of his quality could have shown more adaptation to that (he's shown plenty in getting us set up in certain matches - Anfield etc).

I don't have an issue with Davide. He's been a driving force behind some good things we've seen this season, and he's well respected in the game. I do think a coach with fresh ideas coming in to add to it would not be a bad idea, though.
 
BlueStevie35 said:
League Cup in 2013, battered the mighty Bradford City to do so like
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They got there.

We've got to one final in 26 years bud.

Let's not beat around the bush. Our best achievement since then is finishing 4th.

Leave the irrelevance of Swansea to one side, we are a mid-table side, by the very definition of mid-table. Since Moyes left, we've finished 5th, 11th, 11th, 7th, 8th, 8th, 12th, 10th
 

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