But what about the net spend?

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Watford Leicester Huddersfield to name but three all more net spend that us even after the Sigurdsson transfer.

People getting carried away here.
 
Is hibbo still charging his Carp nets to the account. Rascal. Let us spend whatever hibbo wants on the nets. He's been a good servant.
 
This whole thread.

Where do I even start.

giphy.gif
 

People failing to understand 'net spend' 'gross spend' are indicators. They are limited contextualised information. Useful to understand what a club is doing.

'wages' are measures. 'Changes in wages year to year'. Indicators

'£ wages per league point'
'£ transfer fees per league point' -> metrics

People are confusing these and not understanding what KEY PERFORMANCE INDICATORS (KPI) are or that they exist in football.


A poor set of KPI in football would be a very high net spend. A very high wages measure. A very high + change in wages year to year.

Plus a poor '£ wages per league point' and '£ transfer fees per league point' metrics.

Basically a perfect storm.


This was how I was able to predict Aston Villa's inevitable demise years in advance. They had a continuous set of poor KPI. Year to year. Flagged also by @Neiler

This entire thread continues the false premise of 'Net Spend' is everything but tries to say wages is more important. WRONG.

Both are important. They with other imformation are useful KPIs of football clubs. You have to look at the totality of data however. Combine with other things like 'performance of youth setup' etc to truly understand what's going on in the fortunes of a football club.

Profitability. Changes in gross and net revenues. Trophies won.
Important metrics.

Ground capacity.
Attendances.
TV revenue changes.
Sponsorship deals year to year. Important indicators.

The long term and medium term KPIs for Everton are looking good. At this stage. Because non of the indicators or metrics are excessive or flagging issues. Key thing is performance. Winning trophies and league points/games. Having spent.

So please everyone. Stop arguing over one specific issue 'net spend' or 'wages'. It's a stupid argument in the bigger picture.


DEFINITIONS (public sources):

What are 'Metrics'
Metrics are parameters or measures of quantitative assessment used for measurement, comparison or to track performance or production. Analysts use metrics to compare the performance of different companies, despite the many variations between companies.

Metrics represent the different methods we employ to understand change over time across a number of dimensions or criteria. It is often used as a catch-all term to describe the method used to measure something, the resulting values obtained from measuring, as well as a calculated or combined set of indicators or measures.

What are 'Indicators' or 'Measures'
The term measures when we mean the value measured by whatever mechanism we employ and the term indicator for values we combine and use to hint to specific outcomes and trends.

Note: All measures and indicators reflect events that occured in a specific period of time.

An indicator is a qualitative or quantitative factor or variable that provides a simple and reliable mean to express achievement, the attainment of a goal, or the results stemming from a specific change. It often aggregates or combines multiple measures in an explicit formula.

All indicators are relative to a set of measures in a particular context. For an indicator to be meaningful, it should always be contextualized with the scope of stories being assessed and the measures used to calculate should be made explicit.

It is very easy to get indicators wrong because they can obscure a lot of information and complexity with the deceivingly simple guise of a single value.
 
GeorgeK said:
OK. We are spending the Lukaku (and other players) money plus the extra TV money.

Does that make you happy?

The fact remains that since the takeover we have spent a lot of money but what's also true is there's no evidence that Moshiri is willing to invest in the team out of his own pocket. If that's the case also in the future given we have sold off our young stars we could be in a bit of trouble in a few years. Koeman doesn't care about that. As fans maybe we should.

Say what you want about Martinez but he left us with a lot of value in the squad and seemed to be good for our academy. He just never bought us a bloody play maker persevering with Barkley and now Barkley has f-ed off anyway.
Click to expand...

Left us a lot of value? Your kidding right? Lukaku yeah obviously ... alcaraz, mgeady,niasse,Lennon,besic, robles, Kone, leandro, the Swiss fella, .... none of those would fetch over 5m today... which is peanuts now... McCarthy and mori are the only ones that would command any sort of fee...
 
Tel001 said:
Left us a lot of value? Your kidding right? Lukaku yeah obviously ... alcaraz, mgeady,niasse,Lennon,besic, robles, Kone, leandro, the Swiss fella, .... none of those would fetch over 5m today... which is peanuts now... McCarthy and mori are the only ones that would command any sort of fee...
Click to expand...
Lennon would be above 5m. Robles closer to 10m.
 

GeorgeK said:
OK. We are spending the Lukaku (and other players) money plus the extra TV money.

Does that make you happy?

The fact remains that since the takeover we have spent a lot of money but what's also true is there's no evidence that Moshiri is willing to invest in the team out of his own pocket. If that's the case also in the future given we have sold off our young stars we could be in a bit of trouble in a few years. Koeman doesn't care about that. As fans maybe we should.

Say what you want about Martinez but he left us with a lot of value in the squad and seemed to be good for our academy. He just never bought us a bloody play maker persevering with Barkley and now Barkley has f-ed off anyway.
Click to expand...

" Martinez left us with a lot of value "

TELL ME YOU POSTED THIS DRUNK!? tell me god dammit! lol lol lol oh Lordy Lordy Lordy it's not to early to wash my eyes with bleach is it? No..... Ok Thankyou ;) ( runs to bathroom )
 
toffeeblue9 said:
een reading a number of posts over the last few days about "net spend" and how people assume Moshiri isn't investing money in the club etc and Everton are simply spending the "Lukaku money" etc.

Davek and I have had each other on ignore for a long time, but I've picked up from the posts of other people that he is (unsurprisingly) making this argument, along with a few other people.

To be blunt, it's moronic. It illustrates a lack of understanding of how finances in football work.

I apologise in advance that this is going to be lengthy, but for those of you who can be bothered, point the next idiot who mentions "net spend" in the direction of this explanation.

....

Hopefully this gives you an idea about the complexities (and significant cost) involved in any single transfer and player contract and how "net spend" is the laziest, least well-informed argument out there in football discussion. It is simply not a measure which is considered by clubs when looking at the cost of transfer activity. Cash flow, player trading profits from an accountancy perspective, etc (none of which I've chosen to go into here) are all factors, but "net spend" most certainly is not. The next time someone tries to simplify a debate about a teams relative lack of spending by using "net spend" as a measure, please feel free to give them the cyber equivalent of a bitch slap.
Click to expand...


I find most of what you have written - frankly as bad as those you claim are 'moronic'

You're as guilty of only looking at specific issues as they are.


Net spend AND Gross spend are an important indicators. As business manager will need to consider these year to year. As they might inform as to what available resources will be year to year.

'Cash flow' will only be known by examining: 'wages' and 'changes in wages year to year' along with 'other related costs' and importantly: 'gross revenue' AND 'net revenue' : both of which can be broken down and itemised further to identify where revenues are coming from or will come from. This can be very important in itself.

For instance in Everton's case they will be considering future revenues in everything that they are doing. They will know where those future (new) revenues will be coming from probably out to 3 to 5 years.


'Cash flow' in itself is a rather useless metric for planning purposes year to year. As no one will be able to understand it without breaking it down.

I read most of what you have said and whilst you make valid points about wages and other costs, most of what you have written appears to simply have a go at @davek .

The reality is Dave is merely making some specific points, you don't have to agree with them. I don't as I would always look further than Net spend and Gross spend.

Things like the Youth Setup. Stadium Development. Sponsorships. Equity investments.

Which from the outside are extraordinary items that can dramatically change the picture year to year.

Unfortunately you've fallen into the reverse trap and think that everything you've identified is correct. Whereas you are equally as lazy as the 'moron's you've accused of being lazy in your OP.


The truth is. Neither you or @davek are correct.

The truth is something in between.



Moshiri - IS investing in the club

In the squad (wiped out the debts in past two years; which has meant the club can invest in playing staff and/or infrastructure) which has also meant new tv + sponsorship revenues are being fully mobilised; brought in new sponsorship (new revenues); investing in infrastructure (BM Dock) by arranging financing facilities

There has been a net spend in both transfer fees and wages.

A massive gross spend.

Partially from new tv money. New sponsorship and Lukaku sale.

This was only possible as Moshiri wiped out previous debt and has himself ensured an expanding revenue base year to year for the club.


The difference in Everton to Randy Lerner's Aston Villa. Not all the money is going into transfer fees/wages. Its being spent on expanding the revenues and infrastructure. Wages are not out of control relative to our peers and Everton are not going into debt to finance it all.

Hence. This is 'proper' investment. Not paper investment. That simply looks good on paper.
 
http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/spor...shiri-clears-evertons-debt-80million-12336124

Moshiri clears Everton's debt with £80million interest-free loan
Annual accounts see turnover of over £120m but post-tax loss of £24.3m
BY CHRIS BEESLEY - Liverpool ECHO
14:24, 17 DEC 2016
UPDATED15:03, 17 DEC 2016


Comment:

FFP does not allow Moshiri to simply give Everton £80 million (unless its to spend on stadium/infrastructure).

FFP says Moshiri can only 'write off' set amounts of debt (loans/finance) over set periods (three years).


Effectively - by loaning EFC the money - interest free and no repayment date - under FFP he can personally give the money to Everton and they can write it off over 6->7 years. Which is perfectly within the rules.

People have not understood this point at all. Nor understood how Everton have been able to dramatically go out and spend money this summer.


Its come from Moshiri. Improving the club's revenues and eliminating debts prior to this season.

Any debts that still exist are to him personally. Which he can chose to eliminate in line with the financial regulations at set times over the next decade.


This is a good balancing act. Provided Everton do not go out and spend money on rubbish players who do not perform and Everton win stuff (trophies) then EFC has not been in a better position since the early 1980's. As a responsible owner - Moshiri won't tolerate under-performance. He's proven this already with Martinez. He's put his people in position. Running the club his way. Bill Kenwright and Jon Woods are along for the ride in the short term.
 
GeorgeK said:
OK. We are spending the Lukaku (and other players) money plus the extra TV money.

Does that make you happy?

The fact remains that since the takeover we have spent a lot of money but what's also true is there's no evidence that Moshiri is willing to invest in the team out of his own pocket. If that's the case also in the future given we have sold off our young stars we could be in a bit of trouble in a few years. Koeman doesn't care about that. As fans maybe we should.

Say what you want about Martinez but he left us with a lot of value in the squad and seemed to be good for our academy. He just never bought us a bloody play maker persevering with Barkley and now Barkley has f-ed off anyway.
Click to expand...

Martinez left us with a squad that we've needed to spend £200m fixing
 

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