Are we REALLY that skint?

[Bruce Wayne]

Look around you Dave, how many clubs are buying right now?

Man City obviously. Man Utd can buy because they earn a shitload. Spurs also albeit to a lesser extent, plus of course they have £30m from Berbatov to spend.

And that's largely it. If clubs are buying it's generally because one of the above has given them big bucks for one of their players. So Portsmouth may spend a bit because they have the Defoe money, but I'd be amazed if they spend anywhere near the full amount.

In answer to the original post, yes, we really are that skint. The sale and leaseback of Finch Farm and other EFC facilities have been mentioned in this thread. It's a very common tactic in business because it provides a lump sum now in return for a small rental outgoing each year. They're traditionally capital assets and are leasedback under a long term contract.

 

[Cal]

Signed Pienaar as well.

And Jacobsen

And Saha

And Nash

So with Fellaini thats 5 right there.

This summer will be interesting.
AVDM, Jacobsen, Valente, Castillo, I suspect will all be allowed to leave. I wonder how much cash they get between them currently per week that we see sweet bugger all for.

Long term it looks like Fellaini will be Cahills replacement. Hopefully moyes looks to continue his policy of signing young(ish) players like Maro and Baines, as well as trying to progress the likes of Rodwell, Gosling and Baxter. Also, it looks like vaughan will be facing a do or die, anichebe too.
There isn't a lot of fat in the squad really, the wage budget will decide who can realistically be brought in.

I'd like us to play pienaar right wing, and bring krancjar in to run the left wing.

Anyway, back to being skint. Its all relative, it doesn't take £5 mill to sign a £5 mill player and all that. Still, an extra £10 mill per season for moyes to spend would be nice. But then, so would an unobstructed view.

A total cost of 17.5 million there.

The total cost outgoing = James Mcfadden and AJ 18 million.

What is your point?

 

[davek]

Look around you Dave, how many clubs are buying right now?

Man City obviously. Man Utd can buy because they earn a shitload. Spurs also albeit to a lesser extent, plus of course they have £30m from Berbatov to spend.

And that's largely it. If clubs are buying it's generally because one of the above has given them big bucks for one of their players. So Portsmouth may spend a bit because they have the Defoe money, but I'd be amazed if they spend anywhere near the full amount..

That may or may not be the case, I'd have to see evidence of that trend, tbh. But my point is that Everton's stated ideology in the transfer market has changed, but we're still hearing the architect of that ideology insisting that it is still in place. If we're to have realism, let's have it. The thing is, the new script would stick in Kenwright's throat, and ex-Deloitte man, Elstone - who should be demonstrating a lead here...if he wasn't so busy acting as a lackey to Tesco PLC - has barely even touched on this change, despite the man's over-use of the dreaded 'recession' on his OS blog.

In answer to the original post, yes, we really are that skint. The sale and leaseback of Finch Farm and other EFC facilities have been mentioned in this thread. It's a very common tactic in business because it provides a lump sum now in return for a small rental outgoing each year. They're traditionally capital assets and are leasedback under a long term contract.

That tactic might well be a necessity for a club in our circumstances. But the Bear Stearns securitisation deal back in 2002 was supposed to be struck partly to finance our own academy for us to own. The fact it was sold off and is now rented back just underscores how hopeless the current regime have been, not how savvy they are by being cute enough to sell and lease-back.

As for the variant: outsourcing, even Elstone has implied what a disaster for finances handing over (for the silver bullet of a 'lump sum') merchandising to JJB was, and hints now that it will be brought back into the fold.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

There's a full list here Dave. Apologies for it being the Daily Mail and all.

January transfer window 2009 - Sportsmail's list of the completed deals | Mail Online

Bridge and Defoe are the only moves of note (although the two Serbians signed by United fit in there too I suspect). That is unless you regard Beattie and Etherington as being major signings?

Regarding Kenright's position. Contrary to popular belief I don't hang on his every word so have little idea what his public utterances have been on the topic, but he's screwed either way isn't he? If he says we're skint and won't spend diddly then people will moan about that. If he says we're looking to give DM money to spend then people will moan that it's either not enough or not sustainable.

That tactic might well be a necessity for a club in our circumstances. But the Bear Stearns securitisation deal back in 2002 was supposed to be struck partly to finance our own academy for us to own. The fact it was sold off and is now rented back just underscores how hopeless the current regime have been, not how savvy they are by being cute enough to sell and lease-back.

Once again though, I fear many fans live in a kind of dream world. We all want big money signings to come into the club, but none of us want higher ticket prices or anything that would fund these signings. Lets say BK raised ticket prices to the levels seen at Arsenal or Chelsea. How popular would that be? But this isn't an option. I've long advocated the improval of our commercial endeavours but that's a long term venture, it won't provide the big signing yesterday that so many fans demand. A sale and leaseback does provide just such short-term financing.

 

[davek]

There's a full list here Dave. Apologies for it being the Daily Mail and all.

January transfer window 2009 - Sportsmail's list of the completed deals | Mail Online

Bridge and Defoe are the only moves of note (although the two Serbians signed by United fit in there too I suspect). That is unless you regard Beattie and Etherington as being major signings?.

The trend I was talking about was the one you said about teams outside the SKY 4 basically laundering players - selling to buy and balancing it all out. No doubt most clubs are faced with that at the moment, but I get the impression that a close competitor like AV haven't done that and maybe there's a lesson to be learnt there (although it's far too early to call that a successful quantum leap, and I bear in mind the point made earlier this week on the forum about where that funding is coming from)

Regarding Kenright's position. Contrary to popular belief I don't hang on his every word so have little idea what his public utterances have been on the topic, but he's screwed either way isn't he? If he says we're skint and won't spend diddly then people will moan about that. If he says we're looking to give DM money to spend then people will moan that it's either not enough or not sustainable..

We (that is, all of us out here in reality and not the fantasy world that Kenwright inhabits) know what the score is for Everton's finances under this regime. It's not a matter of him faced with a choice of what expectations to disappoint. The reason he would never acknowledge this change is that the limited way forward he's offered has justified his 'partnership' with David Moyes and his self-proclaimed legacy of edging the club onward against the odds. The wheels have come off all that bollocks now and Kenwright knows but wont ever utter it.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Laundering players? The only example I can think of for that is Tevez/Mascherano. Not sure many other clubs have followed suit.

 

[Neiler]

The trend I was talking about was the one you said about teams outside the SKY 4 basically laundering players - selling to buy and balancing it all out. No doubt most clubs are faced with that at the moment, but I get the impression that a close competitor like AV haven't done that and maybe there's a lesson to be learnt there (although it's far too early to call that a successful quantum leap, and I bear in mind the point made earlier this week on the forum about where that funding is coming from)



We (that is, all of us out here in reality and not the fantasy world that Kenwright inhabits) know what the score is for Everton's finances under this regime. It's not a matter of him faced with a choice of what expectations to disappoint. The reason he would never acknowledge this change is that the limited way forward he's offered has justified his 'partnership' with David Moyes and his self-proclaimed legacy of edging the club onward against the odds. The wheels have come off all that bollocks now and Kenwright knows but wont ever utter it.

What Wheels have come of where like? We could always swap with Spurs and be bottom of the leauge.

 

[davek]

What Wheels have come of where like? We could always swap with Spurs and be bottom of the leauge.

The spin of the 'incremental increase' in Moyes' seasonal purchasing power. The claim is still being made, but the policy is in tatters.

 

[Neiler]

The spin of the 'incremental increase' in Moyes' seasonal purchasing power. The claim is still being made, but the policy is in tatters.

And its damaged our leauge position how?

I think we averaged about 20 mill spending in the last two seasons.

 

[school_of_science]

We're not exactly skint, we're just competing on an unlevel playing field. Above us are four teams with 20million extra a year with CL football and greater merchandising opportunities due to greater exposure. There are 8 teams who have higher attendance figures than us and a large number of clubs firing up their credit card at a far greater rate than us and a far greater rate than is sustainable.

The clubs of a similar size as us have (or have had) various advantages in terms of spending power:

Spurs have a similar size fanbase but a wealthier fanbase, they have 60000 people wanting season tickets, Everton don't even sell all of ours and they manage to get sponsorship deals which have usually far outstripped the ones us and even the media covered RS manage to secure.

City have a new owner who is bankrolling them, before that they were in debt and barely spent anything after Keegan.

Newcastle relied on credit for years, and since falling out of Europe have struggled to spend big, despite a larger stadium and fans who are more likely to stock up on all the latest merchandise.

Villa are being racked up in debt, with Lerner taking advantage of Ellis' tight running of the club, raising 60 million of debt in just 3 years. Before that they were also tight spenders.

So bar Spurs, and Newcastle to a slight degree, none of these clubs would otherwise be able to outspend us. We're currently stuck between a rock and a hard place. Things like our wage bill being too high to be considered healthy as a business, yet our wage structure leaves us mid table in comparison to other clubs. We need to invest off the field, but every penny spare is being used on it. We need to bridge a 30 million gap to the top four, but not gamble big money on the theory of getting in there or risk being the next Leeds.

We're not skint, we're just stuck in the reality of football while other clubs live a short term fantasy, which I'm sure they'll soon suffer for (a la Pompey, West Ham and Leeds).

 

[TX Bill]

Just to underline your point: this club would be up [Poor language removed] creek without a paddle if David Moyes hadn't come along to, firstly, keep us in the division, and, secondly, earn the club top 6 finishes with all the placement money and extra tv coverage that gets you. It's almost certain the current board would have been chased out of town without his services.

On Finch Farm: I dont think that is 'an asset'. We sold it and lease it back from a company Wyness is/was involved in and have the option to buy it back.

Couldn't agree with this more.

 

[Slight_Return]

All the more reason to unearth the quality players of tomorrow now, before they get the breaks and start costing lots of money.

Lets see wether the likes of rodwell, gosling, baxter, possibly this kid from roi, kissock et al step up and repay the faith the club have in them.