A thought I had...

[toffeetower]

I know it's early days, and we haven't really seen it in full bloom as of yet, but today for some reason, (possibly due to the lack of penetration going forward on saturday) I came to the assumption that perhaps the Fellaini-Arteta partnership may not work in the long term, hear me out!

The Arteta of a few years ago, granted although we mainly seen him operating from a wide position, seemed to be so much more involved in a game in the final third, which is where we came to love him.

He had an uncanny ability to cut inside from the flank and get balls in behind the defence, delivering some excellent crosses which led to him being the second highest creative force behind Ronaldo one season.

This deep lying playmaker role he seems to be playing these days is what people have been waiting to see him in all these years, but It got me thinking, is this his most effective position?

The partnership he had with Fellaini on Saturday was very static and square; there was no driving forward, no invention from the middle, no pressing the Blackburn back line from a central position. This was highlighted by our ineffectual wide play on the left and right.

Putting Mikel smack bang in the middle of things orchestrating the play from the deep lying position has it's benefits, but it's nothing a decent, composed central midfield shouldn't be providing anyway. He currently is the best passer we have, which maybe justifies his place there, but I can't remember the last incisive pass or assist he made from this position suggesting that he has a more subdued role in the side these days than he did when he was doing the kind of job Pienaar does currently.

It made me think further how I'd address it. Obviously Mikel is deserving of a starting position in the side but why in such a deep position? Surely his creativity would be more welcome higher up the pitch? Jack Rodwell is the more dynamic midfielder of the top three central midfielders at the club, maybe it's time he was given a more influential role, if Wilshere is good enough surely Jack is?

Example: GK
RB CB CB LB

Arteta Fellaini Rodwell

Bilyaletdinov Pienaar
ST

Fellaini holding would give Rodwell and Arteta so much more freedom to go forward, which is where I think Mikel would be better utilised and where Rodwell could prove to be a much more potent threat with his dynamism.

Bit long winded like but i'd be interested in people's thoughts naturally.

 

[Jamo Martinez]

Ok. I'll give it a go

I see Mikel playing in the Pirlo role at the moment. He's got the ability, as you rightly say, to do the biz firther upfield. something like Xavi does for Barcelona. But the main problem is the movement from team mates, imo. This is why we are screaming out for a player like Coleman. Attacking fullbacks are so important in football today. Not just for the options they give you when they've got the ball but due to the fact that they stretch the opposition defence and make the playing field that much bigger. However I wouldn't write off the Fellaini/Arteta dream ticket just yet (I know you probably aren't). It's early days and Fellaini will be back to his boss, bad, beastly best before you know it

 

[Topblue]

He shouldve tried it in the second half last saturday whats he got to lose.

 

[toffeetower]

Thanks for replying!

I've got no doubt Felli and Arteta bring many qualities to the team, but do you not think pairing them in the middle is a bit too static and one dimentional?

I don't really see either of them driving forward out of the partnership, and although I agree with you on Coleman (who in my opinion should be playing offering us the same outlet Baines does on the left) a lot of teams give at least one central midfielder the license to push further up and dictate in the final third, (Gerrard, Lampard and Fabregas to name three).

You make a good point about the lack of movement however, but if this doesn't improve and we find ourselves in a familiar situation as on Saturday then what do you do to counteract it?

 

[ToxtethBlue]

He's a deep lying playmaker, he started off in that role at Barca and since he's moved centrally for that's the position he's took up. He's not the attacking midfielder people make him out to be, has has the ability to adapt to attacking roles because of his technique and that's a credit to him but his natural role is based around controlling the play, knitting things together, picking the right pass, starting attacks and making the team tick

And it isn't an easy job, we saw that in the first half of last season when the likes of Rodwell, Fellaini, Cahill and Neville all fell short. It's not just about being composed, you've got to be able to keep hold of the ball, and be agile in tight spaces and more than anything, see a forward pass, which is Arteta's main strength. Having the ability to distribute in tight spaces with someone breathing down your kneck is difficult, and there are only certain players who can do it.

That's not to say he can't get forward, players of his style do and he will. Do we need to push him further forward for him to do so? No, and if we did we'd lose what he brings to the team in that position. And his inibility to shoot in advanced areas is one of his few weaknesses, so we'd lose a goal threat, and with our strikers, we do need a support player. Rodwell would be the best choice to play in that position given his running power, ability with either foot and long range shooting.

 

[ToxtethBlue]

Thanks for replying!

I've got no doubt Felli and Arteta bring many qualities to the team, but do you not think pairing them in the middle is a bit too static and one dimentional?

I don't really see either of them driving forward out of the partnership, and although I agree with you on Coleman (who in my opinion should be playing offering us the same outlet Baines does on the left) a lot of teams give at least one central midfielder the license to push further up and dictate in the final third, (Gerrard, Lampard and Fabregas to name three).

You make a good point about the lack of movement however, but if this doesn't improve and we find ourselves in a familiar situation as on Saturday then what do you do to counteract it?

Neither do Busquets and Xavi to be fair, or Alonso and Mascherano. We play with an extra player in there, usually Cahill, that should be his main job, and obviously Arteta and Fellaini can take turns of helping when needed.

 

[toffeetower]

So based on your conclusion that Mikel should stay where he is, how would you accommodate Fellaini if Rodwell is to be the support player?

I wouldn't mind seeing all three in the middle, but this would mean only three attacking places in the final third to be shared between potentially Yak/Saha and Bily/Osman/Pienaar/Cahill...

 

[RFUS]

He's a deep lying playmaker, he started off in that role at Barca and since he's moved centrally for that's the position he's took up. He's not the attacking midfielder people make him out to be, has has the ability to adapt to attacking roles because of his technique and that's a credit to him but his natural role is based around controlling the play, knitting things together, picking the right pass, starting attacks and making the team tick

And it isn't an easy job, we saw that in the first half of last season when the likes of Rodwell, Fellaini, Cahill and Neville all fell short. It's not just about being composed, you've got to be able to keep hold of the ball, and be agile in tight spaces and more than anything, see a forward pass, which is Arteta's main strength. Having the ability to distribute in tight spaces with someone breathing down your kneck is difficult, and there are only certain players who can do it.

That's not to say he can't get forward, players of his style do and he will. Do we need to push him further forward for him to do so? No, and if we did we'd lose what he brings to the team in that position. And his inibility to shoot in advanced areas is one of his few weaknesses, so we'd lose a goal threat, and with our strikers, we do need a support player. Rodwell would be the best choice to play in that position given his running power, ability with either foot and long range shooting.

Excellent post. Really well thought out.

I have to say I agree.

James Martin is right though; we're screaming out for an attacking fullback like Coleman. Or a right winger. Mikel has the skill to pick out that kind of pass, we just need someone with the pace to reach it, I feel.

 

[ToxtethBlue]

Bilyaletdinov-----Fellaini-----Arteta-----Pienaar

----------------------Rodwell-----------------

That's how we play, replace Cahill with Rodwell, who's been used in that 'support' role since towards the end of last season and for the vast majority of the pre-season games. Or use one of Pienaar/Bilyaletdinov there and put Anichebe on one of the wings in place of them. Arteta's far too valuable to us in the middle of the park, certainly when he gets himself back to his best, which he's not as of yet.

 

[Jamo Martinez]

I didn't see the game on Saturday but from what I've seen of us, we can play some nice possession football but our approach play is a bit too slow to break down stubborn defences. We've got a pretty good midfield technically speaking but we can't do what Spain do and keep the ball for 75 minutes till the opposition tire and then pass round the tired legs for the winner. Our best form last season coincided with Donovan's stint. a pacey, technically adept player who would stretch the defence and create space in the middle for the likes of Arteta and Osman as well as giving an outlet. It's kind of ironic but I think the likes of AJ or even Tomaz (the rat) Radzincki would shine in our current team. Much more so than when we were hoof Athletic. People forget that Arteta had some great performances on the wing till opposing teams sussed out that he was our only threat and crowded him out. If we'd had another player of similar ability in the middle that wouldn't have been so easy

 

[Seamus Colemole]

Hows about the old 4-2-3-1?

Coleman and Baines as attacking overlapping fullbacks.

Heitinga and Fellaini as your sitting breaker uppers in the middle.

Then have Pienarr on the left.

Then a choice of Arteta central and Billy right.

Or Rodwell central and Arteta right.

With whoever up front.

 

[toffeetower]

We both know this won't happen unfortunately, and despite having endless respect for Moyes and what he has done this is one of his downfalls. It's been widely discussed on here the past few days; namely his loyalty to certain players.

He wouldn't play Fellaini, Rodwell and Arteta in the middle if it meant dropping Cahill.

People have their gripes with Saha and Yakubu, at least we know we'll get commitment from Tim so why not put him upfront on his own?

 

[RFUS]

Hows about the old 4-2-3-1?

Coleman and Baines as attacking overlapping fullbacks.

Heitinga and Fellaini as your sitting breaker uppers in the middle.

Then have Pienarr on the left.

Then a choice of Arteta central and Billy right.

Or Rodwell central and Arteta right.

With whoever up front.

I have to say, this sounds a bit sexy:

Howard
Coleman - Jags - Heitinga - Baines
Fellaini - Arteta
Bilya - Rodwell - Pienaar
Saha​

I wouldn't want to have 2 defensive midfielders though. And you could put Cahill in for Rodwell, but I wouldn't mind seeing Jack grow in that roll. I also think Anichebe could do a job on the right for sure.

 

[Neiler]

Arteta is up there with the best centrally for me. His assist and scoring ratio is frightening since coming inside.

Not only that his ability to dictate and impose our rythem on a game is a joy to behold something Evertonians will talk about for generations to come.

 

[Chang Elephant]

Good thread lids, just waiting for the first bright spark to somehow twist logic by putting Osman into the line up at which point this pc gets lashed.