That’s subjugated by a foreign country
Roundabouts
- Thread starter Kurt.
- Start date
Saddest thing about it all is that deep down many of these folk are angry frustrated people desperate for community, fed up with visible decline, wishobg for a sense of certainty in a very uncertain, fragmented and often unfair world.
One can't deny that people are scraping by and feel like the system is stacked against them in many ways.
I do think they perhaps forget that, relatively speaking, there's still a lot of good about Britain. Free education (except university, but thats a different matter), free healthcare, and the ability to express their views (no matter how uncomfortable many of us feel about said views). Precarious though those things feel in the current climate.
They are worth fighting for and/improving. Frustration with how Britain feels shabby and careworn, particularly the public sphere and civic centres, is something I share with them.
Frankly, waving a few flags, painting stuff with a flag, and threatening folk in crappy hotels probably isn't going to resolve much, no matter how happy it makes them feel short term.
Lets just hope they stick to the flags stuff and do nothing more sinister, it is relatively harmless.
Britain needs change, but a good path lies not with Nigel Farage et al and their nefarious agenda.
Or maybe they're just all bad smelly racists.
Discuss.
One can't deny that people are scraping by and feel like the system is stacked against them in many ways.
I do think they perhaps forget that, relatively speaking, there's still a lot of good about Britain. Free education (except university, but thats a different matter), free healthcare, and the ability to express their views (no matter how uncomfortable many of us feel about said views). Precarious though those things feel in the current climate.
They are worth fighting for and/improving. Frustration with how Britain feels shabby and careworn, particularly the public sphere and civic centres, is something I share with them.
Frankly, waving a few flags, painting stuff with a flag, and threatening folk in crappy hotels probably isn't going to resolve much, no matter how happy it makes them feel short term.
Lets just hope they stick to the flags stuff and do nothing more sinister, it is relatively harmless.
Britain needs change, but a good path lies not with Nigel Farage et al and their nefarious agenda.
Or maybe they're just all bad smelly racists.
Discuss.
Rita_Poon
Player Valuation: £100m
This is how it always starts. The untermensch they don't like will need publicly visibly marking next, and then any valuables or businesses they own seized... Then segregation, then resettlement camps, then...
Bad smelly racists, yeah?
Papa Shango
Player Valuation: £70m
I for one cannot wait to get jumped because I look vaguely "muslimy".
Maybe I should get a shave. Trouble is I will look like a thumb then instead.
Rita_Poon
Player Valuation: £100m
Can't knock em for smelly, have you seen what the tories have done with the water companies. And there's only so much lynx africa a store can carry.
Sadly, the easy answer* is the one seized upon by the far right...
...
summerisle
The rain, it raineth every day
summerisle
The rain, it raineth every day
catcherintherye
Player Valuation: £80m
Red and white....
Hopefully we won't tolerate the Liverpool colours anywhere near our ground.
Hopefully we won't tolerate the Liverpool colours anywhere near our ground.
Nothing. Apart from whipping folk up all the more.
Been there and on more than one occasion, only it was preceded by the P word. Starting to feel like the late 70's and the rise of the NF to me.
Tony Hibbert's Wife
Player Valuation: £500k
I'd consider myself pretty hard left economically and wooly/liberal lefty socially.
I grew up in Boston, which to the uninitiated is a small market town in South Lincolnshire. It's an hour to the nearest city - Peterborough or Lincoln, take your pick. The main work is in the surrounding industrial farmland and agriculture supply chain. The shellfish industry is long gone, although there remains a profitable port. The biggest employer is the NHS by way of the large hospital that serves the surrounding area. The town has two grammar schools and each year all the 18 year olds from those schools leave for university and never return.
As a youth I worked in the various packhouses and on the land. The labour is largely supplied by gangmasters, who charge their premium for supplying the work to the employer and then use every wheeze in the book to skim off the gang workers - transport tariff, PPE tariff, administration charges galore. The work is hard and boring. For those who've left school at 16 with limited qualifications, options for employment are pretty much limited to working in the packhouse or on the land.
In around 2003 a huge number of Eastern Europeans began to arrive, displacing the Portuguese who'd been working in the area since 2001. They were compliant, hard working and were happy to take accomodation from the gangmasters. The amounts they were paid were considered sufficient and many were either saving to move back home or were sending money home. The gangmasters, landowners and packhouse owners liked them as they never complained, always turned up for work and would happily work overtime whenever called upon to do so. The local workers were smeared as lazy. I worked in packhouse and on the land from the age of 16 in 1998 to around 2003 and can honestly say the British workers were timely, honest and hard working, just not open to exploitation.
The population of the town grew from around 30,000 to around 50,000 - a huge increase. As happens with immigrant populations, the Eastern Europeans wanted their own shops, drinking establishments etc. and they bought or leases property in a particular of the town for those home comforts. Pressure was increased on medical, school and policing as budgets did not increase in line with the population increase. Nothing was done to ease integration of the new population or assuage the concerns of Bostonians. In a very short space or time, Bostonians were faced with worse public services, changes to the cultural fabric of the town and we're also being accused of laziness.
In 2016 Boston delivered the highest Brexit vote in the country - 75.6% leave. It now has a Reform MP, Council and Mayor.
Boston is a microcosm: what happens when you have a place with low incomes, hard jobs, low opportunity, near total talent drain, death of traditional industries and minimal investment and then with no planning or additional investment, increase the size of the population with 15,000 immigrants? They blame the immigrants and immigration for the failures of successive governments, the failures of the capitalists and the failures of capitalism.
As I say, I'm a wooly lefty who thinks immigration is a good thing, but I have sympathy for people in Boston and anyone who's had their social fabric hastily changed by ill considered government or supra-national policy. People like Farage will always take advantage of situations like this, in their own self interests, and the problem for the people of Boston and others who had and have legitimate concerns over how their lives are governed is that they will see salvation in his message and their real issues will be indistinguishable from his stink.
I'll leave with this: during the Brexit campaign we were told that the treasury calculated that immigration was a net economic positive - £2bn p/a being the figure bandied about. But the small print of that report caveated that claim and figure on the basis that immigrants didn't stay longer than 5 years, at which point they become a net recipient. I'd bet not a single Brexit voter actually read that report, but I'd imagine in places like Boston the Brexit voters knew the claim simply wasn't true - otherwise they'd have been benefitting from it.
I grew up in Boston, which to the uninitiated is a small market town in South Lincolnshire. It's an hour to the nearest city - Peterborough or Lincoln, take your pick. The main work is in the surrounding industrial farmland and agriculture supply chain. The shellfish industry is long gone, although there remains a profitable port. The biggest employer is the NHS by way of the large hospital that serves the surrounding area. The town has two grammar schools and each year all the 18 year olds from those schools leave for university and never return.
As a youth I worked in the various packhouses and on the land. The labour is largely supplied by gangmasters, who charge their premium for supplying the work to the employer and then use every wheeze in the book to skim off the gang workers - transport tariff, PPE tariff, administration charges galore. The work is hard and boring. For those who've left school at 16 with limited qualifications, options for employment are pretty much limited to working in the packhouse or on the land.
In around 2003 a huge number of Eastern Europeans began to arrive, displacing the Portuguese who'd been working in the area since 2001. They were compliant, hard working and were happy to take accomodation from the gangmasters. The amounts they were paid were considered sufficient and many were either saving to move back home or were sending money home. The gangmasters, landowners and packhouse owners liked them as they never complained, always turned up for work and would happily work overtime whenever called upon to do so. The local workers were smeared as lazy. I worked in packhouse and on the land from the age of 16 in 1998 to around 2003 and can honestly say the British workers were timely, honest and hard working, just not open to exploitation.
The population of the town grew from around 30,000 to around 50,000 - a huge increase. As happens with immigrant populations, the Eastern Europeans wanted their own shops, drinking establishments etc. and they bought or leases property in a particular of the town for those home comforts. Pressure was increased on medical, school and policing as budgets did not increase in line with the population increase. Nothing was done to ease integration of the new population or assuage the concerns of Bostonians. In a very short space or time, Bostonians were faced with worse public services, changes to the cultural fabric of the town and we're also being accused of laziness.
In 2016 Boston delivered the highest Brexit vote in the country - 75.6% leave. It now has a Reform MP, Council and Mayor.
Boston is a microcosm: what happens when you have a place with low incomes, hard jobs, low opportunity, near total talent drain, death of traditional industries and minimal investment and then with no planning or additional investment, increase the size of the population with 15,000 immigrants? They blame the immigrants and immigration for the failures of successive governments, the failures of the capitalists and the failures of capitalism.
As I say, I'm a wooly lefty who thinks immigration is a good thing, but I have sympathy for people in Boston and anyone who's had their social fabric hastily changed by ill considered government or supra-national policy. People like Farage will always take advantage of situations like this, in their own self interests, and the problem for the people of Boston and others who had and have legitimate concerns over how their lives are governed is that they will see salvation in his message and their real issues will be indistinguishable from his stink.
I'll leave with this: during the Brexit campaign we were told that the treasury calculated that immigration was a net economic positive - £2bn p/a being the figure bandied about. But the small print of that report caveated that claim and figure on the basis that immigrants didn't stay longer than 5 years, at which point they become a net recipient. I'd bet not a single Brexit voter actually read that report, but I'd imagine in places like Boston the Brexit voters knew the claim simply wasn't true - otherwise they'd have been benefitting from it.
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