The identify paradox: modern club or traditional institution looking out for the fans and community?

[davek]

It won't work unless the Everton of the Friedkins is a far more attractive proposition than the Everton of Good Times. But the Friedkins have the imperative that it works, so they can make money.If we start to become known for good, exciting, progressive football, sign good technical players that people genuinely relate to, and start winning football matches consistently, the transition is inevitable. This will, in general, be accepted by the majority who, let's face it, would sell their souls for success at this point. I'm not saying they are wrong, either.
The Everton some of our militant types might want is a bit like the German Democratic Republic. Ideological, ineffective, bleak and...history.

A much misunderstood state that was probably a better place to live in than most western societies; certainly the most advanced Soviet satellite country.

I was and remain a big fan.

 

[barneygumble]

We wont begin to succeed until we start acting like a business, and businesses by large are cutthroat, and ruthless.

There are things I think the club got wrong. Expensive prices of alcohol, when they had a prime change to make BMD the place where people drink... and not build routine elsewhere..

But there's a window to become a serious contender for Europe, with the stadium, the right people at the helms making business like decisions, which will maximise our turnover and income and ability to attract good players... like Jack Grealish.

Im sure when Everton were the "Mersey Millionaires", we were doing things other clubs were against and we probably regale them now as "firsts".

Theres a divide, but I want to break the shackles of "the People's Club", and I want us to be "Everton FC: One of England's Biggest Sides".

Look what happens when you go traditional. You get a gang of mates on the payroll like Barrett Baxendale and Graeme Sharp who are out of their depth.

I am here for change.

 

[Drico]

Big challenge that is too.

It is. And if they don't succeed, they'll merely be transitional owners. I don't see a world where they make a bit more money out of Everton fand but fail to move us out of upper mid-table at best.

 

[Drico]

A much misunderstood state that was probably a better place to live in than most western societies; certainly the most advanced Soviet satellite country.

I was and remain a big fan.

I know you do, Genosse.

 

[FinchFarmBlue]

Don't underestimate that even in the Northwest including the Liverpool City Region, there is an increasing band of progressively cash rich citizens. I speak to many people every day in this segment amd probably the last 2 years at least a lot more local voices pop up, that do literally have money to burn.

Apart from the potential prime land advantage aound the H.D. to boost the coffers that has been discussed in the ownership thread previousl, I don't see the Friedken's fearing pricing local traditional fans out somewhat, as there is a potential untapped still local market out there to begin marketing to.

As others allude to, the working class element of the game has largely disappeared..if you think what average matches prices were for thredross served uo at GP for so long, thrn even a little bit of success at the H D. will allow the owners to justify prices and evolution of the base a little more, even if a good proportion of the fanbase will not agree with this.

 

[JelavicBrate2]

Don't underestimate that even in the Northwest including the Liverpool City Region, there is an increasing band of progressively cash rich citizens. I speak to many people every day in this segment amd probably the last 2 years at least a lot more local voices pop up, that do literally have money to burn.

Apart from the potential prime land advantage aound the H.D. to boost the coffers that has been discussed in the ownership thread previousl, I don't see the Friedken's fearing pricing local traditional fans out somewhat, as there is a potential untapped still local market out there to begin marketing to.

As others allude to, the working class element of the game has largely disappeared..if you think what average matches prices were for thredross served uo at GP for so long, thrn even a little bit of success at the H D. will allow the owners to justify prices and evolution of the base a little more, even if a good proportion of the fanbase will not agree with this.

The issue is Premier League and game in general in Europe and Latin America is a tribal game. United, RS too a lesser extent Arsenal and Chelsea won support of Asian market. We missed our chance to gain huge number of US fans when we had Howard and Donovan. Arsenal appealed to weathier fans, who simply didn't turn up when they were doing crap, so much so Arsenal threatened to take their season tickets. I don't see any evidence that unless we drastically improve on pitch, that you have thousands of new Everton fans to replace disgruntled "legacy fans". Liverpool's attendances dropped under Hodgson, 33 000 at home to Bolton. People seem to forget RS being unable to sell out against Southampton in semi final in 2017. Also we were able to attract and keep local fans in 90s, 2000s and 2010s based on the fact it was easy to get tickets at GP and pretty difficult at Anfield, but RS hadn't had any consistent success. It's a bit like your average fella breaking up with his wife, because there's a chance he could become millionaire and get a supermodel.

 

[Norlye]

Football has changed and,very sadly,Everton probably need to change. It is now a global sport and we need to get on that bandwagon,if we want to succeed,or we risk becoming a just another club with a long faded glory. I desperately hope we can find the mythical third way, possibly how German clubs are run, but I would be very surprised if our American overloads fancy that.

My other sport I watch, NFL, sort of fits in, to me anyway, with where the PL wants to get. It will be tourists and selfies. Event days. I am actually one of them. I love my weekend in London watching one of the NFL London series games
, not bothered who,and I am happy and lucky enough to be able to pay top dollar for the tickets. I have family in America and they laugh at my desperation to drink a $10 bottle of Bud Light at the Bank of America Stadium

For me, Everton is the big real connection I still have with my 25 year old son. He is still a child on Everton days and Xmas Eve, in my head anyway. He loves and gets the global entertainment of the PL. Once said the only good thing about Liverpool was Klopp. This was from following Dortmund previously. He watches/ follows very differently from me.

At 57, I am determined not to become a moaney old git on so many things. Not always successful. Just ask my daughter about our last trip to Blackpool and young people enjoying themselves . Endlessly going on about how things were better back in the day. I think we do need to move to the future and we do need to attract new, young, international fans. We need to welcome them.

On a personal level, the club is now not in dire threat, could never walk out on her over the past 3 years, and I said goodbye to the Grand Old Lady. I am going to try to embrace the new future, my link with my son is hopefully stronger than my absolute loathing of Neville, Spitty and the whole Sky 6 malarkey but ,if it is not for me,I will just probably quietly walk away and leave the future to itself. And genuinely wish it well.
Football long since stopped being a working class game. I don’t really get it anymore, but as in many aspects of my middle aged life I don’t think it is aimed at me.

I am going to the Spurs game,with my son, and that could be the goodbye for me. It will be interesting to see.

It does upset me when I read the ticket threads and how people/families who have sat together for years are being split up. The PL corporate world will role on and maybe for some a Championship Team was the best outcome on a personal level

Anyway, I am now off to buy a Alice band and look forward to Friday Night Football from the home of the Champions.

I wish all Evertonians the very best and hope that the change that is coming is not as bad a feared.
Family and community are so important and I hope yours is strong enough ,not just to survive,but prosper.

 

[Eggsyblueskin]

Perhaps one day football will have it’s ‘punk’ moment, when supporters create their own teams take control of Saturdays .
It’s not impossible, Wimbledon and United supporters both formed their own clubs.
I like to imagine a league being formed around supporter owned clubs ( St. Domingo F. C. )
Impossible? No . Unlikely? Yes , unfortunately.
We are too used to being fed the sanitised version , we have lost the colour and visceral quality of the games.
Sit down , here’s a flag to wave , no naughty words on it , sing nicely, nothing too offensive and definitely No Flares , we don’t want blue smoke obscuring our product on TV.
Truly the opiate of the masses.

 

[chicoazul]

There's indeed a real risk of a disconnect between a section of fans over the coming seasons.

It’s ok we shall be here to help them heal.

 

[Blue_Berry]

A quick bit of AI research. The cheapest ST offered by each club, for this season compared with the last one - So for us, BMD v GP.

I was a bit surprised by this personally as I always though we were at the lower end of the scale, but last season we were mid-table at around £600.

In the new stadium with new owners, we have jumped into the top 6, at around £750ish.

A couple of thoughts on this:

BMD was conceived as a 53,000 stadium, not to compete with the more usual 60k+ stadia of recent construction. IIRC this was, in part, deliberate as part of the Meis plan to create more atmosphere, but the opportunity cost is reduced ticket revenue.

The Season Ticket allocation process for BMD has been rigorous in preferring the STHs of longest standing, and even with the addition of an extra 10,000+ STs compared to GP (31,000 to c.42,000), and at the increased price point, there is now a considerable waiting list. Anyone wishing to buy one of the remaining available matchday tickets must become a 'digital member' of the club. The point being, while not foolproof, the potential for us being crowded out by 'PL tourists' on serious matchdays is limited.

The reality is we need to increase our commercial revenue to a) help deal with PSR, b) compete with the teams around us and c) future-proof ourselves.

On the face of it, it looks like our fanbase have largely bought into that - so far as it goes.

 

[davek]

A quick bit of AI research. The cheapest ST offered by each club, for this season compared with the last one - So for us, BMD v GP.

View attachment 321160

View attachment 321161

I was a bit surprised by this personally as I always though we were at the lower end of the scale, but last season we were mid-table at around £600.

In the new stadium with new owners, we have jumped into the top 6, at around £750ish.

A couple of thoughts on this:

BMD was conceived as a 53,000 stadium, not to compete with the more usual 60k+ stadia of recent construction. IIRC this was, in part, deliberate as part of the Meis plan to create more atmosphere, but the opportunity cost is reduced ticket revenue.

The Season Ticket allocation process for BMD has been rigorous in preferring the STHs of longest standing, and even with the addition of an extra 10,000+ STs compared to GP (31,000 to c.42,000), and at the increased price point, there is now a considerable waiting list. Anyone wishing to buy one of the remaining available matchday tickets must become a 'digital member' of the club. The point being, while not foolproof, the potential for us being crowded out by 'PL tourists' on serious matchdays is limited.

The reality is we need to increase our commercial revenue to a) help deal with PSR, b) compete with the teams around us and c) future-proof ourselves.

On the face of it, it looks like our fanbase have largely bought into that - so far as it goes.

1/ it's still a huge leap from one season to the next (and if you add in membership fee increases it'll be even more so)

2/ no one knows for sure how many non-ST match day tickets are being kept aside for corporate packages

3/ our fanbase have "bought into it" on the strength of the novelty of the new stadium and not wanting to miss out in the experience...but that wont last forever

 

[Blue_Berry]

1/ it's still a huge leap from one season to the next (and if you add in membership fee increases it'll be even more so)

2/ no one knows for sure how many non-ST match day tickets are being kept aside for corporate packages

3/ our fanbase have "bought into it" on the strength of the novelty of the new stadium and not wanting to miss out in the experience...but that wont last forever

Thanks Dave - classic! Cherry pick the bits that support your agenda and ignore the rest . But that's fine.

Notwithstanding the sharply increased cost, there are still going to be over 90% of the home seats at HD going to STHs, Forever Blue members and corporate suite packages each week - may it be ever thus

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

Nearly did not take the option of season tickets.

For me what makes top flight English football is you and I. Wont take much for me not to renew in coming years.

Any move towards mid half water breaks to shoe in TV advertising. Of course cost comes into. At the moment it's affordable.

There is only so much fleecing of match day fan can go. Club's will want tv revenue to go much further...

 

[Blue Roo]

Hmm, been thinking about this one, across the pond.

Reckon tradition will make the walk from Goodison to the dock, against Brighton, with hopefully a win at lLeeds going with.


From afar or nearer by I followed Everton in Britain - you follow one team in the vicinity and then you follow one teams elswhere. not too many mind - since 1984, getting to see rare sightings of football on the TV (FA Cup) apart from the NSL, following Everton in the table in the newspaper and on the pools radio on Sunday evening. More football came on the TV but mostly Everton was not there, save the Cup, until match of the day, with SBS then looking out into a bigger world. Sport was a long way from anywhere if it wasnt Australian.
Sampdoria, what a team.

So I'd like to think there's some of me with within.
You can talk about what the money making/trading market is doing to the game but the while within remains there is a sort of resistance to a whole lot, that sees tradition as generational resistance.

I'll be there in spirt on the walk to the dock, what happens from there who knows, but as long as the evertonian is the make up there will always be something to follow. We should mind losing this,
and cultural place/home
now embodied from the hill to the river, and sea
(growth, not in money scales)