Everton Youth Teams Thread

Some do, but it's often just a buzzword to make the staff sound better in the press and doesn't marry up with reality.

If you were to make every youth side play in generic colours you might identify like 3 that definitely look like their counterparts at seniors.

In fact on the contrary the 3 really good academies, including United, often do not mimic the first team at all
Its counterproductive to set the whole of the youth team playing exactly the way the first team is.

1) Doesent make sence for a 16 year old playing in a style or system that a manager wants whos unlikely to be there in the 5 years hes ready for the first team
2)Players that age dont always end up in the position they play at youth level. Good players should be adaptible to all/any system. Its why Harrison Armstrong has done so well
 

Its counterproductive to set the whole of the youth team playing exactly the way the first team is.

1) Doesent make sence for a 16 year old playing in a style or system that a manager wants whos unlikely to be there in the 5 years hes ready for the first team
2)Players that age dont always end up in the position they play at youth level. Good players should be adaptible to all/any system. Its why Harrison Armstrong has done so well

I agree with this 100% mate. Id we had done the above, over the last 8 years we would have been preparing teams to play the Martinez, Koeman, Allardyce, Silva, Ancelotti, Benitez, Lampard, Dyche then Moyes way. Good luck finding some continuity.

I agree with Thelwell on this, the academy should have a philosophy and work to that.
 
Its counterproductive to set the whole of the youth team playing exactly the way the first team is.

1) Doesent make sence for a 16 year old playing in a style or system that a manager wants whos unlikely to be there in the 5 years hes ready for the first team
2)Players that age dont always end up in the position they play at youth level. Good players should be adaptible to all/any system. Its why Harrison Armstrong has done so well

I agree with this 100% mate. Id we had done the above, over the last 8 years we would have been preparing teams to play the Martinez, Koeman, Allardyce, Silva, Ancelotti, Benitez, Lampard, Dyche then Moyes way. Good luck finding some continuity.

I agree with Thelwell on this, the academy should have a philosophy and work to that.

Unless the clubs senior management decide on an 'Everton style of play' and stick to it. Hiring managers to fit the playing style rather than the other way around
 
Its counterproductive to set the whole of the youth team playing exactly the way the first team is.

1) Doesent make sence for a 16 year old playing in a style or system that a manager wants whos unlikely to be there in the 5 years hes ready for the first team
2)Players that age dont always end up in the position they play at youth level. Good players should be adaptible to all/any system. Its why Harrison Armstrong has done so well
I agree, there's a lot more drawbacks than positives which is again to say why the actual top academies just do not do it.

They may have specific ways of playing, like, you would be able to pick out how Chelseas youth sides play if you watched multiple of their age groups, but they do not copy the first team themselves. And again it should be stressed, neither of Uniteds pro-level youth sides tried to copy Amorim and his 3 at the back last year, or Ten Hag the year before. It is, as you say, counterproductive to overall player development.
 

Its counterproductive to set the whole of the youth team playing exactly the way the first team is.

1) Doesent make sence for a 16 year old playing in a style or system that a manager wants whos unlikely to be there in the 5 years hes ready for the first team
2)Players that age dont always end up in the position they play at youth level. Good players should be adaptible to all/any system. Its why Harrison Armstrong has done so well
You miss the key here: club should not change styles every time a new manager comes in. That's just wasteful because suddenly half the team is not fit for the new style. Which is pretty much the death spiral we were under Moshiri.

And youth teams don't have to play *exactly* like the first team. More like same principles and same formations. For instance, let's say club decides high-press, high tempo game is what gets the fans onboard so that's what first team should play. But youth teams decide to play a slow tempo, low block game instead. How will the young players learn to play what first team demands? Wouldn't it be more useful if they spent five years learning how to play a high press?
 
I think possibly the best solution would be something similar to GCSE/A-Levels. At lower age groups you don't stick to one particular style/philosophy/formation, but learn/train a variety of them. Then in u21s you can focus a bit more. Not sticking to any one rigidly, but more time training/playing in a small handful that are close to what the 1st team play. Of course a lot depends on what the academy is trying to acheive. Are you truly trying to provide a supply of young players ready to join the first team, and fully commiting to doing that, or are you just trying to create enough playing assets that might move up to the first team or be sold for "profit".
 
You miss the key here: club should not change styles every time a new manager comes in. That's just wasteful because suddenly half the team is not fit for the new style. Which is pretty much the death spiral we were under Moshiri.

And youth teams don't have to play *exactly* like the first team. More like same principles and same formations. For instance, let's say club decides high-press, high tempo game is what gets the fans onboard so that's what first team should play. But youth teams decide to play a slow tempo, low block game instead. How will the young players learn to play what first team demands? Wouldn't it be more useful if they spent five years learning how to play a high press?
Why shouldn't they?

I get it if a manager is poached to try and get a 'like for like' manager in 100%

But to sack a manager who's style has obviously not worked and get someone in of a similar ilk is abit mental isnt it?

Spurs have likely improved on Big Ange with Frank, who is more pragmatic and adaptable dependent on game, if anything he doesn't have a 'style'....similar to Moyes, similar to Ancelotti.

The 3 coaches mentioned all adapt, hence why its important for younger players to learn how to adapt and not just play one way.
 
You miss the key here: club should not change styles every time a new manager comes in. That's just wasteful because suddenly half the team is not fit for the new style. Which is pretty much the death spiral we were under Moshiri.

And youth teams don't have to play *exactly* like the first team. More like same principles and same formations. For instance, let's say club decides high-press, high tempo game is what gets the fans onboard so that's what first team should play. But youth teams decide to play a slow tempo, low block game instead. How will the young players learn to play what first team demands? Wouldn't it be more useful if they spent five years learning how to play a high press?
I'd say they learn to play both ways, dependent on situation and opposition
 
I think possibly the best solution would be something similar to GCSE/A-Levels. At lower age groups you don't stick to one particular style/philosophy/formation, but learn/train a variety of them. Then in u21s you can focus a bit more. Not sticking to any one rigidly, but more time training/playing in a small handful that are close to what the 1st team play. Of course a lot depends on what the academy is trying to acheive. Are you truly trying to provide a supply of young players ready to join the first team, and fully commiting to doing that, or are you just trying to create enough playing assets that might move up to the first team or be sold for "profit".
Think the target is both.

Again pushing for the 'adaptable' and not just fitting whatever 'style' the first team is playing.

If we are looking to make profit off players who are fairly obviously not going to hit the first team regularly (a bit like we did with Simms & Cannon), to start that process, you need to loan them out down the pyramid, and for them to look good, they cant just be programmed into one way of playing
 

Why shouldn't they?

I get it if a manager is poached to try and get a 'like for like' manager in 100%

But to sack a manager who's style has obviously not worked and get someone in of a similar ilk is abit mental isnt it?

Spurs have likely improved on Big Ange with Frank, who is more pragmatic and adaptable dependent on game, if anything he doesn't have a 'style'....similar to Moyes, similar to Ancelotti.

The 3 coaches mentioned all adapt, hence why its important for younger players to learn how to adapt and not just play one way.
I just explained. You sign players for a Dyche manager and then sign a Martinez. How many of those players are comfortable with the ball at their feet? Probably most aren't so you have most of the squad incapable of playing the new style. So you sign new players. But you still have to pay wages for the existing ones or try to sell them. Then next guy is again something different. Which is why we had a Frankenteam when Thelwell arrived. Loads of players on high wages sitting in the bench.

I think you don't understand what "style" means. It does not mean that players play *exactly* the same way. Some managers do adapt somewhat but most still have principles. Ajax has done this for decades, Barca since Cruyff was there. Both produce quality players year after year. Brighton looks for similar managers, but exact copies but stylistically similar so that switch is a painless as possible. On the other end of the spectrum Amorim was a stupid choice by ManU because he plays a very specific style and squad was missing several key positions he requires.

Let's see how Frank does at Spurs. Totally different situation to Brentford. Moyes has tried to adapt and more often than not has struggled.
 
….many clubs have a strategy of playing systems that mirror the first team.

From what I have seen thats more of a playing style of U18's onwards - to a degree.

The younger ages have many teams, and its more of enhancing the 5 or so skillsets a player has, rather than style of play in a team.

That comes later but earlier its each individuals that is key.


When my lad was at United, the coaches were obsesses with individuality and skill, and allowing instinct...this was younger ages.

The lower down the level he went after United, it was more based around the team, and the greater good.

Sure experiences will differ for others, but that was always my take.
 
I just explained. You sign players for a Dyche manager and then sign a Martinez. How many of those players are comfortable with the ball at their feet? Probably most aren't so you have most of the squad incapable of playing the new style. So you sign new players. But you still have to pay wages for the existing ones or try to sell them. Then next guy is again something different. Which is why we had a Frankenteam when Thelwell arrived. Loads of players on high wages sitting in the bench.

I think you don't understand what "style" means. It does not mean that players play *exactly* the same way. Some managers do adapt somewhat but most still have principles. Ajax has done this for decades, Barca since Cruyff was there. Both produce quality players year after year. Brighton looks for similar managers, but exact copies but stylistically similar so that switch is a painless as possible. On the other end of the spectrum Amorim was a stupid choice by ManU because he plays a very specific style and squad was missing several key positions he requires.

Let's see how Frank does at Spurs. Totally different situation to Brentford. Moyes has tried to adapt and more often than not has struggled.
Roberto Martinez - left Everton 2016
Sean Dyche - joined Everton 2023

That's 8 years.


Some absolutely mad takes in this

How many of those players are comfortable with the ball at their feet? Probably most aren't so you have most of the squad incapable of playing the new style
Our football significantly improved once Dyche left as the players we have could do more than just lump it up to the Centre forward but weren't instructed too.

Then next guy is again something different.
If we are talking 'style'.. we have mainly recruited similar apart from 2 (Martinez & Silva)
The rest Moyes x 1, Koeman, Ancelotti, Allardyce, Benitez, Dyche, Moyes x 2 (if you were to put them into a box then they would all be in the same box, just varying levels of competence)
Lampard......i don't know what he was

The stand out thing there is the sheer number of managers, that's the reason for high player turnover

Ajax has done this for decades, Barca since Cruyff was there. Both produce quality players year after year
Ajax have been producing standard players for the past 10-15 years, the odd flash in the pan but nothing to write home about

Brighton looks for similar managers, but exact copies but stylistically similar so that switch is a painless as possible
Brighton haven't been sacking managers, they have been getting poached, so they feel the way of going is working...hence looking for simialr managers, something i said in the post you replied to

On the other end of the spectrum Amorim was a stupid choice by ManU because he plays a very specific style and squad was missing several key positions he requires.
Amorin is out of his depth, not having the 'right players' is just an excuse and exactly why you shouldn't be hamstrung with one way about doing things, a poor coach, and not strong enough to change Utd

Let's see how Frank does at Spurs. Totally different situation to Brentford.
Of course its a different situation, but Frank has shown by his time at Brentford he can adapt depending on quality of his side or the quality of opposion, he openly said after his first 6 months in the PL he had to change from attacking Brentford to a more pragmatic way, he changed again to utilise Eriksen when he came in. He's savy enough and not stubborn to do this

Moyes has tried to adapt and more often than not has struggled.
From what i've seen he's come back much more rounded, he also won a shiny at west ham, and look at the state they are in since he left
 
From what I have seen thats more of a playing style of U18's onwards - to a degree.

The younger ages have many teams, and its more of enhancing the 5 or so skillsets a player has, rather than style of play in a team.

That comes later but earlier its each individuals that is key.


When my lad was at United, the coaches were obsesses with individuality and skill, and allowing instinct...this was younger ages.

The lower down the level he went after United, it was more based around the team, and the greater good.

Sure experiences will differ for others, but that was always my take.
Interesting insight, i can see how that makes sense to do.

How's your lad playing now?
 

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