6 + 2 Point Deductions

[ForeverEverton]

Guys can we please stop saying I hope it gets reduced to 5 points or whatever

The sanction is ridiculous

If it gets reduced to 1 point I will still be fuming

Frothing with rage

There should be no points deduction

This is warped thinking to accept a small deduction as a compromise for a ridiculous sanction to begin with

We must appeal and clear our name and take it to the highest courts in the world until we get no points deducted

I agree 100%, we should not be sanctioned whatsoever.

Listening to John Blaine on Toffee TV, he puts it the best....

If Everton were not building a new stadium, would we have breached? No, and the stadium is an allowable deduction.

The argument that the PL is putting forward is the loan didn`t specifically say "For the stadium" so we are getting done on that, it just appears the PL wants to do us that is why they aren`t listening to mitigation or anything for that matter.

They made their mind up long before we went to the IC.

 

[Shevin Keedy]

I wouldn’t pay that, but if he goes I can’t see us selling for less than 50m

Nobody paying it is my point.

 

[ForeverEverton]

Yes they would, and i wasn't trying to make losses sound bigger - just to try and think about why non-compliance continues to be an issue because it isn't clear what deductions are applicable when. Another poster just said that for FFP purposes, the 20 and the 21 accounting periods are averaged, which makes it even more complicated and open to interpretation.

Essentially, it was mentioned from the point of view that the raw number was a lot more than £19m, so a £19m relative saving in 23 might not be enough to bring the club back into FFP compliance depending on what is happening with previous deductions, which as far as I'm aware, we don't know at the moment.

When Everton submitted the accounts for 2022 we were compliant, we only admitted a small breach believed to be, reportedly £3m-£7m, after the PL started pulling other costs in to the P&SR calculation. At the IC they pulled in a total of £19.5m of costs that were not in the original submission and this is what Everton need to fight against.

The more I see the ins and outs of this case I believe we should be compliant and there is in fact no breach if the PL take in to account just the 2 biggest mitigating factors of the 6 put forward.

I`d also argue the whole IC and P&SR process is well and truly flawed, no one should be done by a regulator which is just "out to get you".

 

[arch stanton]

Every day this feels like it becomes more complex with more and more potential outcomes.

Do we get any points reinstated? Are ours and Forests charges dropped or upheld? Is Masters chased out of town and PL regulator introduced? Masters resigns but the PL avoids the regulator on the proviso it sorts itself out?

This whole season has become a pantomime.

Oh no it hasn't

 

[RD2910]

Accounts published for the period ending June 2020 are falling off. The 2nd charge relates to account periods ending June 21, June 22 and June 23.

£250m is the amount Everton missed FFP by before allowable deductions during accounting periods 20, 21 and 22. The question was, if the June 20 period is now excluded and it was a large loss and replaced by the June 23 period - which is presumably lower - then how are Everton still failing to meet FFP if it only missed by £19m originally. The first point is saying that as we don't know specifically what allowable deductions fell into the accounting period ending June 20, we don't really know what is coming off the total losses. If a large chunk of the allowable losses fell into that period, which is now being removed for this 3 years cycle, then it would be one possible explanation as to why Everton continue to operate outside of the FFP framework.

I won't repeat it here, its long winded - but my original post detailed Everton's published account across the Moshiri ownership - which is where the £250m excess losses came from. All Everton's account posting are publicly available from companies house (just google Everton companies house) going back to when Noah was in short pants. If you read through them, it's very clear that the messaging that the club is putting out now about being compliant and this being somehow unfair is complete nonsense. Even Everton's auditors are telling them they are in serious trouble for christs sake - but they continue to ply fans with total horseshit. Everton's board have being criminally negligent in how they have run the club and brought it to the precipice of collapse, then tell the fans that everythings fine and its the PL that are being somehow unfair. Pages 12 and 13 of the June 22 accounts - auditors comments about Everton as an ongoing concern is frankly terrifying. In short, Everton are wholly reliant on Moshiri continuing to put money in to keep the lights on. Moshiri is now wholly reliant on Usmanov passing him the funds to do this. Usmanov is on the sanctioned list and can't do this anymore. Find a buyer who will commit to funding the club or go into administration. Don't take my word for it, just download the document and look for yourself, takes 2 minutes.

Your first paragraph is wrong. As I told you, and you'll see if you read last year's handbook, 2019/20 and 2020/21's losses were averaged and included in the PSR calculation ending in 2023.

Ignoring that average calculation, Everton lost £304m from 2019/20 to 2021/22. Unless I'm being an idiot, and that's very possible, £304m is not £250m more than £105m.

 

[John from Bootle]

We may not have a large net spend but we are still losing to many players of free and paying them from when we over spent in the first place .

Also, we tried claiming something ridiculous for covid .. like more than double what other clubs were …

Didn't other clubs take out Govt. loans though? Spurs, for example, borrowed 175m from the govt, to ease the impact of Covid.

We never. Once again, an overlooked fact.

 

[The binman chronicles]

I agree 100%, we should not be sanctioned whatsoever.

Listening to John Blaine on Toffee TV, he puts it the best....

If Everton were not building a new stadium, would we have breached? No, and the stadium is an allowable deduction.

The argument that the PL is putting forward is the loan didn`t specifically say "For the stadium" so we are getting done on that, it just appears the PL wants to do us that is why they aren`t listening to mitigation or anything for that matter.

They made their mind up long before we went to the IC.

What I can't get my head around is if the PL change the rules next season so we would have been compliant, then at worst it should be a fine/one window transfer ban. How can they charge us to the maximum (twice) & forest, then lower the drawbridge for everyone else, if they believe the current rules are not fit for purpose.

 

[MikeH72]

I feel anyone who’s voluntarily and willingly listened to the “Everton Business Matters” podcast has blood on their hands and has in part contributed to the state of the game today.

 

[Bez2k2k]

I agree 100%, we should not be sanctioned whatsoever.

Listening to John Blaine on Toffee TV, he puts it the best....

If Everton were not building a new stadium, would we have breached? No, and the stadium is an allowable deduction.

The argument that the PL is putting forward is the loan didn`t specifically say "For the stadium" so we are getting done on that, it just appears the PL wants to do us that is why they aren`t listening to mitigation or anything for that matter.

They made their mind up long before we went to the IC.

Yeah this is the type of stuff that does my head in. Ignoring that we broke the rules by 19.5M. To simply say they are wrong we are right isn’t good enough.

Everton admitted guilt but to a lower amount. Even at the lower amount we still overspent and still broke the rules. I can’t just turn up for work at 2pm when everyone else is in at 9am. It’s the rules. If I break them, I will be punished.

The whole funding the stadium thing I appreciate but what people don’t know/don’t understand is that Moshiri didn’t use the funding for the stadium, he used it for the running of the business and paid for the stadium costs out of his own pocket, their argument is that you cannot claim the interest for the loans when you didn’t use them loans for what you say.

If I take a loan out to pay for a car, but then use it on my house, I can’t then say well I don’t want to pay the interest because I didn’t use it for what I originally intended.

 

[ForeverEverton]

Yeah this is the type of stuff that does my head in. Ignoring that we broke the rules by 19.5M. To simply say they are wrong we are right isn’t good enough.

Everton admitted guilt but to a lower amount. Even at the lower amount we still overspent and still broke the rules. I can’t just turn up for work at 2pm when everyone else is in at 9am. It’s the rules. If I break them, I will be punished.

The whole funding the stadium thing I appreciate but what people don’t know/don’t understand is that Moshiri didn’t use the funding for the stadium, he used it for the running of the business and paid for the stadium costs out of his own pocket, their argument is that you cannot claim the interest for the loans when you didn’t use them loans for what you say.

If I take a loan out to pay for a car, but then use it on my house, I can’t then say well I don’t want to pay the interest because I didn’t use it for what I originally intended.

When the accounts went in there was no breach, we were compliant, at that point there was no admission of guilt.

When the PL started pulling stuff out and Everton hoping for a small punishment went for guilty on 3m-7m but then the PL didn`t stop there expecting Everton to just "take it".

It really is as simple as, if we weren`t building a stadium would we have breached? No! All this is to do with accounting practices and arguing what costs can go in what pot, simply should not be sporting penalty. Should not be a points deduction and should not be a transfer ban.

Even West Ham only got a fine for playing Tevez who single handedly kept them in the PL... see how rediculous all this is?

Daft comparison with house and car as you`d pay interest on both anyway, the argument is whether loan interest can be excluded from the PSR calcs, Spurs had 100% of their stadium build interest outside of PSR, ours was in the 2021 calcs but then told they don`t midway through 2022. Shifting the goalposts on Everton after other teams had benefitted, seems a recurring theme.

 

[DanB90]

The select committee getting involved in the sanctions policy is massive for us and our appeal. I sense Burnham has been making some calls.

Not sure what this means for us in terms of getting our points back, but it surely spells the end for Masters?

If he were in an old silent movie he’d currently be stood blindfolded on a railway track with a cigarette in his mouth.

 

[arch stanton]

Not sure what this means for us in terms of getting our points back, but it surely spells the end for Masters?

If he were in an old silent movie he’d currently be stood blindfolded on a railway track with a cigarette in his mouth.

he needs to be shown into a room, with a service revolver, and a new found sense of decency to do the right thing.

 

[Tel001]

Nobody paying it is my point.

Nobody is buying anyone at this point. Will most likely happen in the summer

 

[Tel001]

Didn't other clubs take out Govt. loans though? Spurs, for example, borrowed 175m from the govt, to ease the impact of Covid.

We never. Once again, an overlooked fact.

All I’m reading into that is that spurs have a chairman that knows what he’s doing and we don’t

 

[Simon Buttle]

Nobody is buying anyone at this point. Will most likely happen in the summer

Id be surprised if we get the huge fee some think though, he is hugely underwhelming at times, has so much potential and you just want him to grab control of games but he never does.