New Everton Stadium Discussion

[AndyRJ]

Just reading up on the Spurs stadium mate, apparently it was a manure show, it was supposed to open in the first game of the season, but due to delays it didn’t open until April of the same season - it wasn’t planned to open mid season. It was delayed by 8 months.

Opening of Spurs’ new stadium delayed over safety concerns

At least two Premier League games and one NFL fixture have been moved to Wembley

www.irishtimes.com

Yeah, they were meant to open to Liverpool I think. Wasn't anything to do with them renting Wembley, they'd extended that for the rest of the season when they knew it would be delayed.

As per my last post, i'm not saying anyone plans to open mid-season; no-one in their right mind would hence why it rarely happens. It has though and I've no doubt it will again. Whether we do or not I don't know.

 

[Neiler]

The whole argument started because Mike asserted that no teams EVER move mid-season which is completely untrue. The pool might be small but that is only because all other stadiums have been completed at the most appropriate time i.e. in the close season.

It is perfectly feasible that we might move mid-season, whether we do nor not will come down to a load of factors and at this point no-one knows. I've got no problem with anyone having a difference of opinion in terms of whether they think we will move or wait if not completed in time for 24/25, as you have done.

However, to suggest that it categorically doesn't happen and won't ever happen is a load of rubbish. It won't ever be a clubs first choice for obvious reasons but circumstances can certainly dictate a clubs choice to open mid-season.

I get you mate.

Just sparked my curiosity is all, as I immediately assumed we would be in Goodison for another couple of seasons.

Good to look into each case and see the circumstances, may just have put the frighteners on myself, reading the Spurs stuff - that was a manure show! Delighted for Levy!

 

[AndyRJ]

I get you mate.

Just sparked my curiosity is all, as I immediately assumed we would be in Goodison for another couple of seasons.

Good to look into each case and see the circumstances, may just have put the furthers on myself, reading the Spurs stuff - that was a manure show! Delighted for Levy!

Regardless of whether we're open in time for 24/25 start i think we will look back on the build as a success, certainly in comparison to Spurs! The only criticism I'd aim at the club is that they must have known for a while now they weren't going to be ready for the start of that season so why haven't they said anything?

I don't even think it's down to any particular delays as LoR are apparently ahead of schedule, I just think that the alleged 3 year build programme the club have bandied about was 6 months short.

Obviously, I could be wrong and it might well be ready in time but all the evidence so far suggests it won't be!

 

[Neiler]

Regardless of whether we're open in time for 24/25 start i think we will look back on the build as a success, certainly in comparison to Spurs! The only criticism I'd aim at the club is that they must have known for a while now they weren't going to be ready for the start of that season so why haven't they said anything?

I don't even think it's down to any particular delays as LoR are apparently ahead of schedule, I just think that the alleged 3 year build programme the club have bandied about was 6 months short.

Obviously, I could be wrong and it might well be ready in time but all the evidence so far suggests it won't be!

Lang seem to be managing it well mate, when you look at the Spurs stuff - though it seems their issues were with the internal fit. Their issue was procurement and poor stakeholder analysis, they outsourced to multiple sub contractors and made a mess of it.

Im not all that surprised if there is a delay, i was half expecting it, in projects this size, it’s not uncommon, the breathing space might be useful, given the current economic climate and the need for investment.

 

[Kever10]

Anyone else think that despite the massive South Stand, theres a good chance a core of those coming from the Street End might choose the North Stand, especially if they include safe standing for the lower section, due to the similarity in layout to Goodison, the smaller intimate feel behind the goal making it more exclusive, and the fact the away fans will be over in that corner as well?

It still has a similar capacity to the current Gwladys, even without the potential increased numbers for safe standing.

As big and impressive as the South Stand is, it reminds me more of the Park End. Noise will come from there regardless due to the numbers, even if the hard core start things off in the North.

Just a thought.

 

[BNJ1878]

In the championship? Or the lower leagues in general like Sunderland, Middlesbrough, Wigan, Derby, Reading....etc who.all moved and proved it guarantees nothing

Not said this for a while, at risk of being on the receiving end of another ticking off from the mods..... You are an idiot.

Kings Dock in the early 2000s would have been a game changer. An Iconic city centre stadium just as money stated to genuinely flood into the league.

We didn't build it because your hero didn't want to loosen his grip.

The fact he then tried to do bunk to Kirkby to appease his loan shark pals was just the cherry on top of the failed KD move.

You're right there's no guarantees in life, but seeing as we didn't tumble down the leagues at Goodison, it's unlikely we'd have done the same having moved.

 

[mahermi1]

Not said this for a while, at risk of being on the receiving end of another ticking off from the mods..... You are an idiot.

Kings Dock in the early 2000s would have been a game changer. An Iconic city centre stadium just as money stated to genuinely flood into the league.

We didn't build it because your hero didn't want to loosen his grip.

The fact he then tried to do bunk to Kirkby to appease his loan shark pals was just the cherry on top of the failed KD move.

You're right there's no guarantees in life, but seeing as we didn't tumble down the leagues at Goodison, it's unlikely we'd have done the same having moved.

You might as well talk to the piss stone in you're local pub mate because he's as thick as it...

 

[Bedfordblue]

Lang seem to be managing it well mate, when you look at the Spurs stuff - though it seems their issues were with the internal fit. Their issue was procurement and poor stakeholder analysis, they outsourced to multiple sub contractors and made a mess of it.

Im not all that surprised if there is a delay, i was half expecting it, in projects this size, it’s not uncommon, the breathing space might be useful, given the current economic climate and the need for investment.

Spurs stadium was an entirely different construction model, Levy being a control freak wanted a construction management job rather than a ‘design and build’ which we have.
Differences are subtle but suffice to say CM projects generally have very few incentives for the trades (or the CM) to get the job done.
A lot of spurs issues were trades appointed by Spurs themselves who weren’t really up to it (either resourcing or ability) and a clients consultant team who didn’t pay enough attention to design coordination.
Cost over runs were allegedly in the millions yet no one but Tottenham bore the brunt of those over runs. Tells its own story.

 

[cooperman]

Anyone else think that despite the massive South Stand, theres a good chance a core of those coming from the Street End might choose the North Stand, especially if they include safe standing for the lower section, due to the similarity in layout to Goodison, the smaller intimate feel behind the goal making it more exclusive, and the fact the away fans will be over in that corner as well?

It still has a similar capacity to the current Gwladys, even without the potential increased numbers for safe standing.

As big and impressive as the South Stand is, it reminds me more of the Park End. Noise will come from there regardless due to the numbers, even if the hard core start things off in the North.

Just a thought.

You'll get quite a few in the North because it's next to the away fans as well

 

[Dr Baxter]

I don’t hold much attachment for Goodison anymore but maybe that’s because of my age, I’ve been going since 1999. It’s just a massive hinderance for us nowadays FFP wise. I’m with you on that one.

And also we haven't paraded a trophy there for a quarter of a century. I've been going since the early 70's and I just associate GP now with failure. It will be a clean break and we hopefully by then will be able to draw a line in the sand between the Kenwright era and the start of a new one at BMD. Delicious to think Kenwright will never set foot in our new gaff.

 

[Dr Baxter]

You'll get quite a few in the North because it's next to the away fans as well

I don't know why but I expect the north stand is where the noise will come from.

 

[Exeter_Gently]

Most competent thing the club have managed to do while I've been alive.

 

[allen]

I don't know why but I expect the north stand is where the noise will come from.

It’s basically the Park End, though.

I have nothing against the Park End, but it’s not the Gwladys Street.

 

[suave 1878]

Maybe they won’t, but I don’t think they will move mid season mate for the reasons I said, your getting into contract law etc and it’s a massive roundy object ache.

I can only tell you this, for my sins work asked me a few years ago, to go off and do a project management qualification, mainly so they could justify me implementing Heath care initiatives in my area of practice. You have no idea the absolute scale of detail that goes from moving a bog standard company office of 20 people from old office to a new office over a weekend, that people turn off their computers at five on Friday and switch them on in a new office at 9 on a Monday. It’s massive, in terms of a business case, product breakdown, procurement, stakeholder analysis, quality assurance, risk and developing a critical path for that move - a project of this scale - You would be off your rocker as a project manager to do it mid season, in two weeks, a good project manger would advice against it on a cost risk analysis. Even trying to plan a critical path relying on a third party regulation - is foolish - look at what happened to Spurs. There situation was different to ours, they had debt to be serviced, they were paying rent and had over extended themselves -they didn’t have a home ground to play in as they were developing the WHL site. Levy lost it in the end.

None of us know for certain of course, but id be amazed if they do it mid season - it’s simply not the clever play, for the reasons I mention above and in my previous posts.

Seriously and your project management experience for a weekend move of 20 people rules this out many of the things you have described are very much what needs to happen anyway. Just factor in this happening mid season.
Everton fc current admin can’t make this happen but I’m sure there’s enough talent out there who can. I used to do major projects for a living, trust me
There is now way we will be attending gp for second half of a season ie worst case when that shiny new stadium full of bars and restaurants is waiting for us all to arrive

 

[AndyRJ]

Spurs stadium was an entirely different construction model, Levy being a control freak wanted a construction management job rather than a ‘design and build’ which we have.
Differences are subtle but suffice to say CM projects generally have very few incentives for the trades (or the CM) to get the job done.
A lot of spurs issues were trades appointed by Spurs themselves who weren’t really up to it (either resourcing or ability) and a clients consultant team who didn’t pay enough attention to design coordination.
Cost over runs were allegedly in the millions yet no one but Tottenham bore the brunt of those over runs. Tells its own story.

MACE were involved with Spurs stadium weren't they? In my experience of them, they push their Construction Management model on all their clients making it out to be the perfect form of delivery. They earned a huge sum for their CM role I believe.