Confirmed Signing Idrissa Gueye

Do you want Gana back?

  • Yes

    Votes: 834 79.7%

  • No

    Votes: 212 20.3%
  • Total voters
    1,046
  • Poll closed .
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Lanolin said:
Is moneyball not about using stats to identify players who fit what you want to do and may be undervalued in the market? That’s nothing to do with what I’m saying? I’m just talking about basic economics; consistently losing first team players without receiving any money for them is not a sound business model. Im all for bringing in the odd player like gana but it has to be the exception and for us it’s closer to being the rule.
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Money Ball is yes, but key components are picking up players usually older whose value has massively decreased (say because they've had a certain injury or are ageing which effects their chosen position so using data and instinct to figure out if they can modify position and thus be of more value than it appears on raw stats, that's just one example) other one is buying to develop and selling when their value exceeds their ability/contribution (people often confuse it with selling st their peak - it's more complex in reality - it's selling them at their 'peak market value' so say a player whose declining slightly but whose rep is at its highest (say Salah or Inter Lukaku for example) or who have outperformed in a period (so the rep is artificially inflated - say Jelavic after 6 months with us or the lad who played for Swansea who had one great season)

Say if Chelsea think that Broja won't actually develop much beyond what he is (or Gallacher) then right now due to age and one season of good play they are possibly at 'peak market value' - moneyball would sell them if they analysis bsaud that

We actually recruitment wise have been on the recieving end a lot (Iceland, Willams Bolasie, Tosun, Niasse, Klassen ) where all classic money ball sales of players and we where the patsie.

I think both Denis and Cornet would be similar - both coming off one outlier season in a higher profile league - market value fir both is artificially higher than statistics say it should be
 

bluestevon said:
Money Ball is yes, but key components are picking up players usually older whose value has massively decreased (say because they've had a certain injury or are ageing which effects their chosen position so using data and instinct to figure out if they can modify position and thus be of more value than it appears on raw stats, that's just one example) other one is buying to develop and selling when their value exceeds their ability/contribution (people often confuse it with selling st their peak - it's more complex in reality - it's selling them at their 'peak market value' so say a player whose declining slightly but whose rep is at its highest (say Salah or Inter Lukaku for example) or who have outperformed in a period (so the rep is artificially inflated - say Jelavic after 6 months with us or the lad who played for Swansea who had one great season)

Say if Chelsea think that Broja won't actually develop much beyond what he is (or Gallacher) then right now due to age and one season of good play they are possibly at 'peak market value' - moneyball would sell them if they analysis bsaud that

We actually recruitment wise have been on the recieving end a lot (Iceland, Willams Bolasie, Tosun, Niasse, Klassen ) where all classic money ball sales of players and we where the patsie.

I think both Denis and Cornet would be similar - both coming off one outlier season in a higher profile league - market value fir both is artificially higher than statistics say it should be
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michu/bony
 
bluestevon said:
Was gonna say for all we know he himself actually could be gay, then googled his wife, I can safely say he probably isn't ?
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Worked with fair few men in 90s who had married women in the 60s and 70s just for appearances, and led the "gay life" in private until they either got found out or came out themselves. Its easy to judge now but not that long ago Britain was much like Senegal when it came LGBT. Probably myself have a different take if he were French national/international.
 
NilSatisOptimum said:
Not big on this symbolism thing. Many reasons why Gueye may have not worn this rainbow shirt... One example. He could be actually trying to protect a family member who may well be in that LGBT community in Senegal. And him adorning this rainbow makes him and those close to him a target. Easy grab Muslim = homophobe. We just don't know.
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There’s all sorts of plausible reasons he didn’t play, for example the club may have withdrawn him themselves because the Qataris were just about ok with the “western” players wearing the rainbow numbers but wouldn’t accept a devout Muslim doing so.

We don’t even really need to know the full story but I think as due diligence the club do. We know the press love a Bad Everton story and will be all over it, and it’s Lampard that has to go out and bear the brunt of it so he needs to know what and who he is defending.

As long as Lampard is happy to sign him and field the resulting questions then it’s all fine but if it’s one of our famous board / owner signings being imposed we’re putting the manager in a difficult position.
 

This is all just so strange and just highlights how directionless we are overall. I do think Gueye is still pretty good and that he'll fill in the desperately needed hole we have in midfield. He's also still somehow underrated by our supporters who somehow think he's not good on the ball. I'll fill you in on a little secret: anyone playing for a club at the level of PSG is far better with the ball than your average midfielder and we don't even have average midfielders largely. So he's going to help us in and out of possession. That's the good news.

The bad is that we're reversing one of the few good business decisions we've made in the last few years. Similar to selling Digne it isn't really the end of the world to get off of an ageing player while he still has value. That we signed Gbamin and he has never been fit doesn't make selling Gana worse. We just got the next decision wrong and that happens.

I know we're still going to be in the green on this and that's obviously good but it just isn't smart to now bring in a 32 year old with previous muscle injuries on a multi-year contract. He's already not the guy he was when he left and it is hard to say how much longer he'll even be the guy he currently is given mobility is central to what he does well. We should have just taken the win when we got it and moved on.

It also highlights a ridiculously limited scouting approach which is also just not very good. At some point we have to start uncovering players so we can make a little money here and there. Sell on isn't everything but if you're never doing it you will run into issues.

It's tough because for the next 12 months this could be a really good move for us. But it also gives me no confidence that we're on the right track to sorting out the deeper issues at the club regarding recruitment and that has dug us a pretty big hole.
 

Not sure about this. I loved Gana when he was here, but he'll be 33 in Sept and no player is as zippy at that age as they were at 27/28/29.

He's still playing fairly regularly for PSG though but in a World Cup year where he's likely to play 40+ games i'm not sure he'll have the legs to cope.
 
TheBigIguana said:
This is all just so strange and just highlights how directionless we are overall. I do think Gueye is still pretty good and that he'll fill in the desperately needed hole we have in midfield. He's also still somehow underrated by our supporters who somehow think he's not good on the ball. I'll fill you in on a little secret: anyone playing for a club at the level of PSG is far better with the ball than your average midfielder and we don't even have average midfielders largely. So he's going to help us in and out of possession. That's the good news.

The bad is that we're reversing one of the few good business decisions we've made in the last few years. Similar to selling Digne it isn't really the end of the world to get off of an ageing player while he still has value. That we signed Gbamin and he has never been fit doesn't make selling Gana worse. We just got the next decision wrong and that happens.

I know we're still going to be in the green on this and that's obviously good but it just isn't smart to now bring in a 32 year old with previous muscle injuries on a multi-year contract. He's already not the guy he was when he left and it is hard to say how much longer he'll even be the guy he currently is given mobility is central to what he does well. We should have just taken the win when we got it and moved on.

It also highlights a ridiculously limited scouting approach which is also just not very good. At some point we have to start uncovering players so we can make a little money here and there. Sell on isn't everything but if you're never doing it you will run into issues.

It's tough because for the next 12 months this could be a really good move for us. But it also gives me no confidence that we're on the right track to sorting out the deeper issues at the club regarding recruitment and that has dug us a pretty big hole.
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Totally agree but thanks to years of mis-management we don't have the wiggle room to sort those deeper issues out correctly. The team is on it's backside so needs immediate fixes, otherwise we will go down! We haven't got the freedom to spend big on young established players who improve us and we don't really have the time to take a chance on an unknown prospect from the French leagues in case they need a season or two to bed in. The transfer stratagey appears to be play it safe and go with what you know.
We are living hand to mouth and probably will be for the next few seasons.
 
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