ECHO Comment: "Fears of Witch-hunt Against Liverpool FC" part 3

[catcherintherye]

I think that bigger thing was Covid. Absolutely scuppered them. Some would have been sold and moved at the end of last season for decent money and some at the end of this if there was money sloshing around European clubs. Also the lockdown and global tightening of the belt meant they didn't make the money they would have expected to for winning in a non-asterisk year. Add into that the fact that Van Dijk is not playing - real big issues for them.

Covid scuppered them in a range of ways. Obviously revenue last year was down around 80m. In terms of the playing squad though, it has completely annihilated many of their players value. I think Rhian Brewster at whatever he was 15m down has just cemented it. Nobody is going to be pauing them anywhere near 15m for their squad players anymore.

 

[Yarrgh]

Covid scuppered them in a range of ways. Obviously revenue last year was down around 80m. In terms of the playing squad though, it has completely annihilated many of their players value. I think Rhian Brewster at whatever he was 15m down has just cemented it. Nobody is going to be pauing them anywhere near 15m for their squad players anymore.

15 million would get you Sigurdsson for 3 years. We might knock him, but if you came up from the Championship, you'd have a punt on that to stay up. The value is not there at the moment to have a gamble on fringe or junior players from anyone unless they are a lot cheaper.

 

[Dancing Pat]

Capt. Hendo has even brought Lazarus Van Dyke back from the dead

 

[Saint Domingo]

Capt. Hendo has even brought Lazarus Van Dyke back from the deadView attachment 125425

Please us his full title Captain of captains

 

[number4.]

To a degree I agree with that. Certainly the trend for players into their late 20s has been for them to lose value.

Overall though I think they probably underrate Wijnaldum. Go and look at their record with him in the team, he is a critical cog, as important as any of their players. Thiago is a big downgrade on him, and theyd have been better boxing him off than going for Thiago.

I do also think, you see now that lots of their big players are into their final 2 years of their deals, that there is probably something slightly bigger going on.

Im not sure about underrate - he has probably been klopps first name on a lot of teamsheets & he (klopp) is ultimately part of the decision making process. If I was to guess, I would say their metrics suggest he is is dropping off & although its hard to assess anyone this year, his performance appear aligned to that.

Re Him V thiago - I appreciate it is an easy out, but I would draw a line through thiago's season this year & judge him on next (very quickly if improvement doesnt kick in) - he played with Fabinho and Henderson twice (i think) and been very impressive, but it has been a mess since then. He has of course contributed, but IMHO he is doing jobs he was not signed to do

 

[davek]

Questions need to be asked over Michael Edwards the man who apparently doesn’t ever make a mistake and is sponsored by KFC.

Big money midfield signings of Keita and Thiago haven’t worked, yet Can Lallana Wijnaldum and probably Milner will leave for nothing. Shaqiri Minamino Oxlade Chamberlain haven’t worked. There’s no youth coming through as you say apart from Curtis Jones who’s path has been blocked by the vanity signing of Thiago. There’s no cover for either fullback who is premier league standard. Ben Davies can’t even make the squad. Add all of this to the overall contract situation they now have on their hands.

All he did was spend world record money on players to give Klopp everything he wanted then they went all out for two seasons (probably illegally enhanced also) to win a couple of pots and now there’s nothing in place for continuity.

Not a single mistake there.

Two signings that didn't make sense the way Liverpool were playing and getting success with: bypassing midfield and hoofing it long to the three forwards.

The waste is enormous at that club, as you say. A signing like Shaqiri was meant to be their Mahrez type signing and he was so obviously at the low quality end of that type of player. Minamino and Ox-Chamberlain = more ill-fitting signings. Jota and Alisson are about the only two who can be deemed successes they've had in the market in the last couple of years.

When the youngsters dont make up the shortfall you get what happened this season: found out big time.

 

[TrachyBlue]

Just on this point, a player leaving for nothing has to be put into the context of the contracts they havent been offered. It's not specific to LFC, but a general consideration.

If you look a Wijnaldum for example; signed almost 5 years ago on a 5 year deal at a reported 60k PW (some sites say 40k some say 90k). They could have offered him a new deal in 2018 for another 5 years, but the kicker would be he wants parity (reasonable request) with Jordan Henderson who is on circa 150kPW (again varying reports)

So if you ladder that up in terms of 5 year outlay, that's an incremental increase for three years of 90k + 2 years @150k, totaling just over £31 million in outlay.

My point is not about Gini Wijnaldum specifically, but more the idea of a player leaving on a free is not always a case of financial mismanagement, but sometimes a prudent way of extruding max value from a player

Do you actually support them? Genuine question.

 

[number4.]

Do you actually support them? Genuine question.

No - Genuine answer.

I argued here at the "Null and Void" time that money & TV rights would ensure that the league continued last season. A few latched on to that and assumed I must be a liverpool fan, this is not the case. I had a strong opinion on it, as I do the punishment arguement know and people are quick to assume 2+2=5

I have also had the handle number4 since long before a certain center half signed. Although one genius here reckons I must have known he was signing a year and a half in advance and hence the handle.

 

[catcherintherye]

Im not sure about underrate - he has probably been klopps first name on a lot of teamsheets & he (klopp) is ultimately part of the decision making process. If I was to guess, I would say their metrics suggest he is is dropping off & although its hard to assess anyone this year, his performance appear aligned to that.

Re Him V thiago - I appreciate it is an easy out, but I would draw a line through thiago's season this year & judge him on next (very quickly if improvement doesnt kick in) - he played with Fabinho and Henderson twice (i think) and been very impressive, but it has been a mess since then. He has of course contributed, but IMHO he is doing jobs he was not signed to do

Hes had an entire year here and is 30. I can't see him getting any better. Ill be frank, I dont think he's been very impressive in any game. Hes ranged from done ok to being a liability. Wijnaldum is a similar level of player, but is just much more suited to their system. He's bigger, stronger, quicke, more mobile etc. It looks a pretty awful swap to me if it goes through.

Thats the point though, I'm really not sure what they dont see in Wijnaldum and what they did see in Thiago. Whenever they played, Wijnaldum was always 7/10 every week. Very reliable and consistent. I'm not sure why they didnt view him on a par with the likes of Henderson, who he is better than.

 

[TheBigIguana]

Thiago has a stinker and you’re on here defending him agaisnt all comers.

Ancelotti wins a game and you’re leading the charge to tell everyone why it’s a fluke that won’t be sustained.

I call it honesty. I don't know what else to tell you.

 

[TheBigIguana]

But Doucoure has a purpose in our team.
Our best team at the moment tends to be a 433 with Allan and Doucoure breaking up attacks, carrying the ball forward and pressing and then Sigurdsson cutting off passing lanes and trying to play forward to link up with Richarlison, James and the full backs (who then get covered by Allan and Doucoure) and get the ball in the box for DCL.
So whether you like him or not (clearly not) I can’t see anyone deny that Doucoure is energetic and breaks up opposition attacks and then tries to get us further up the pitch? By the way, even though it’s not his game, Doucoure has 25 PL appearances, 2 goals and 3 assists whilst Thiago has 19 PL appearances so far...

I can in fact deny that Doucoure breaks up attacks

 

[number4.]

Hes had an entire year here and is 30. I can't see him getting any better. Ill be frank, I dont think he's been very impressive in any game. Hes ranged from done ok to being a liability. Wijnaldum is a similar level of player, but is just much more suited to their system. He's bigger, stronger, quicke, more mobile etc. It looks a pretty awful swap to me if it goes through.

Thats the point though, I'm really not sure what they dont see in Wijnaldum and what they did see in Thiago. Whenever they played, Wijnaldum was always 7/10 every week. Very reliable and consistent. I'm not sure why they didnt view him on a par with the likes of Henderson, who he is better than.

Dont get me wrong - he has been dire from what I have seen. His best game from memory was at goodison where he was very good for me, but if you're marking him out of 10 for the year, I would suggest it is a very very low grade

I dont think its an Thiago or Winjaldum conversation, Thiago may well prove to be an absolute dud, which is certainly the direction of travel, but that doesnt mean they should keep Winjaldum. I would not be surprised if they are convinced his legs are going, or close to gone. He has been bang average this year as well

 

[Mutzo Nutzo]

No - Genuine answer.

I argued here at the "Null and Void" time that money & TV rights would ensure that the league continued last season. A few latched on to that and assumed I must be a liverpool fan, this is not the case. I had a strong opinion on it, as I do the punishment arguement know and people are quick to assume 2+2=5

I have also had the handle number4 since long before a certain center half signed. Although one genius here reckons I must have known he was signing a year and a half in advance and hence the handle.

Explain your forum debut antics in the Holgate v Firmino thread.

Whatever you are, you are definitely NOT an Evertonian

 

[catcherintherye]

Dont get me wrong - he has been dire from what I have seen. His best game from memory was at goodison where he was very good for me, but if you're marking him out of 10 for the year, I would suggest it is a very very low grade

I dont think its an Thiago or Winjaldum conversation, Thiago may well prove to be an absolute dud, which is certainly the direction of travel, but that doesnt mean they should keep Winjaldum. I would not be surprised if they are convinced his legs are going, or close to gone. He has been bang average this year as well

Is this the Goodison derby where James ran the show and Thiago just watched him run the game?

Its mot strictly a Thiago V Wijnaldum chat, but when you wont pay one guy more than 60k per week who is a core component of a side that wins the CL and league, and sign another lad, the same age, who can barely get a kick for a side who are going to end up about 40% lower in terms of performance, there seems to be some muddled thinking there.

I do think its what happened with FSG and Klopp a bit. In truth they probably thought they could get more money in the summer for him, and it has backfired because of covid. Strangely I think FSG have been a bit slow to react to that.

 

[number4.]

Explain your forum debut antics in the Holgate v Firmino thread.

Whatever you are, you are definitely NOT an Evertonian

Antics? - Perhaps I was a bit green by not caveating each post by saying, as I did a good few times - "In the event there is no evidence against him" X or Y was the most likely outcome.

Appreciate and understand the anger at the time & Perhaps I should have been more sensitive to it, but the point I made ultimately went on to be correct