New Everton Stadium Discussion

[Jacko93]

You don’t think a continuation of an outright ban on attending stadia would be anywhere near an issue for people involved in the development of stadia?

Why aren’t people investing in stadia located on the Orkney Islands then? Why is a 500 million pound investment considered suitable for a club like Everton, but I’m sure you’d agree that it wouldn’t be considered suitable for Marine FC?

I get that people’s confidence has increased because of the successful roll out of the vaccine. I get that people expect the current ban on stadia attendance to end. My point has always been that it will have to end for the development to be considered viable, and that if it continued, then a 500 million pound investment in a stadium that nobody is allowed to attend would not be an attractive investment.

Are you thinking that we may NEVER return to a stadium? As fans, you think that there is a chance of never sitting en-masse at a game, EVER AGAIN?

We're not even talking 3-4 years here, these investments will be made over 30-40-50 year terms. Not a single person is thinking that we wont have fans back in by then. IF that was a genuine worry, then stadia is the last their issues.

 

[arch stanton]

Sorry mate but this is painful - sometimes it's just better to hold your hands up and say "I've no idea what I'm talking about". Trust me, I have to do it every week in the match threads.

The regulations you're talking about expire BY LAW on the 30th June 2021. If you're looking for some light lunchtime reading, feel free to have a read: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2021/364/made

If not, I've highlighted the key part for you.

View attachment 122544

mate, in Mark Twain's words (I think was him, him or Popeye)

"Never argue with an idiot, they'll drag you down to their level then beat you on experience"

 

[number4.]

Fair enough.

How would that clarity manifest itself though?

I imagine it would involve the removal of the current ban on stadia attendance, and that said clarity would not be obtained if the current ban remained in place?

That's the point, it cant. Any commercial project can only be decided on the best knowledge available & there is always going to be an element of risk.

You could open a restaurant & everyone relies on food supplements & stops people going out for dinner
You could open an airport and another volcano stops all planes
You could open a stadium and sport is banned by government
You could build a house for your family and everyone gets killed in a car crash

Im using extremes for emphasis but you get the point, all projects have an element of risk, Covid does not look like it will be one in 2024

 

[number4.]

Are you thinking that we may NEVER return to a stadium? As fans, you think that there is a chance of never sitting en-masse at a game, EVER AGAIN?

We're not even talking 3-4 years here, these investments will be made over 30-40-50 year terms. Not a single person is thinking that we wont have fans back in by then. IF that was a genuine worry, then stadia is the last their issues.

If you roll back to last october, pre vaccine trial results, this was a real possibility, certainly not as we know it; but that rish, which I have no doubt contributed to delays is now completely gone

 

[chrismpw]

While I agree with all the imagery, I simply don't think a ferry terminal will be worth the expenditure and/or offer the reliability of service required.

It's all well and good on a Saturday match at 3pm in fair to good weather, but what about night matches or when the weather is rough in the winter?

From what I can tell, the last service is nearly 7pm, so unless they allow a special match timetable and some funding the club it doesn't feel a viable option.

If, a big if, Liverpool Waters kicks off like Peel want it to be may it be a viable route, but I can't see that happening in the foreseeable future.

I'd be more inclined to hope Merseytravel and the club invest in the bus and rail routes, be that extra services or potentially even a new station before Sandhills.

You make a good argument for "monorail across the Mersey"

 

[Dymak]

Hope to god your job isn't in corporate finance - nothing would ever get built.


But here's where you're starting to contradict yourself. You've repeated numerous times that you can't predict the future, but now you're saying that the legislation might get extended? Well, yeah - there might be another world war too...

There is no contradiction in my stance, which is that the current ban on stadia attendance would have to be removed to make the stadium viable. Why people have changed that into "You think the ban will never be lifted!", I don't know?

As I've already said, no restrictions, no problem! A continuation of the restrictions, which is an outright ban at present, would clearly pose a problem, however.

I think the meltdown in reaction to stating these salient points is entirely unnecessary, tbh.

 

[Kurt.]

There is no contradiction in my stance, which is that the current ban on stadia attendance would have to be removed to make the stadium viable. Why people have changed that into "You think the ban will never be lifted!", I don't know?

As I've already said, no restrictions, no problem! A continuation of the restrictions, which is an outright ban at present, would clearly pose a problem, however.

I think the meltdown in reaction to stating these salient points is entirely unnecessary, tbh.

It’s ok to be wrong mate ... two hours derailing a thread to try and prove a point is rather Rawkish though

 

[number4.]

There is no contradiction in my stance, which is that the current ban on stadia attendance would have to be removed to make the stadium viable. Why people have changed that into "You think the ban will never be lifted!", I don't know?

As I've already said, no restrictions, no problem! A continuation of the restrictions, which is an outright ban at present, would clearly pose a problem, however.

I think the meltdown in reaction to stating these salient points is entirely unnecessary, tbh.

Surely you can see the difference between a current problem today & a projected problem at time of completion

 

[arch stanton]

There is no contradiction in my stance, which is that the current ban on stadia attendance would have to be removed to make the stadium viable. Why people have changed that into "You think the ban will never be lifted!", I don't know?

As I've already said, no restrictions, no problem! A continuation of the restrictions, which is an outright ban at present, would clearly pose a problem, however.

I think the meltdown in reaction to stating these salient points is entirely unnecessary, tbh.

Chrsit on a bike this is hard work. The current legislation states that all measures willed on 21st June. It would take a new Statutory Instrument to be laid before the HoP to extend it beyond then and there is no political or populous will for that even if things start to go a bit pair shaped. It is the opposite of your argument, rather than a ban on stadium attendance having to be removed, it will have to be re legislated for. Very very different positions. Just give ut up mate, you have got the wrong end of enough of this stick to get the wrong end of a forest.

 

[Dymak]

That's the point, it cant. Any commercial project can only be decided on the best knowledge available & there is always going to be an element of risk.

You could open a restaurant & everyone food supplement stops people going out for dinner
You could open an airport and another volcano stops all planes
You could open a stadium and sport is banned by government
You could build a house for your family and everyone gets killed in a car crash

Im using extremes for emphasis but you get the point, all projects have an element of risk, Covid does not look like it will be one in 2024

I agree with this. Nobody can see into the future and life is full of risk, but that doesn't mean you should never subject yourself to any risk. You couldn't do it even if you tried.

But your point about the 'best knowledge available' is a great one. At present, there is an outright ban on stadia attendance due to a novel coronavirus that apparently creates a new strain every two weeks. I simply made the point that a continuation of the present day coronavirus restrictions would make the project unviable. A 500 million pound stadium development is kind of reliant on people being able to attend the stadium.

 

[roydo]

You don’t think a continuation of an outright ban on attending stadia would be anywhere near an issue for people involved in the development of stadia?

If the Government banned fans from football, for ever, there would be no fans at any sports, no music gigs, ever, no TV audiences, ever, no theatres, ever also.

There would also be no need for a ground at all.

So no, your premise would not be considered. Cos no money would be needed.

 

[Dr Baxter]

Really hope we can get Netflix or Amazon involved in the build of this. Would be fascinating to see behind the scenes over the next 3-4 years.

Time Team with Baldrick, perhaps?

 

[Mrk]

There is no contradiction in my stance, which is that the current ban on stadia attendance would have to be removed to make the stadium viable. Why people have changed that into "You think the ban will never be lifted!", I don't know?

As I've already said, no restrictions, no problem! A continuation of the restrictions, which is an outright ban at present, would clearly pose a problem, however.

I think the meltdown in reaction to stating these salient points is entirely unnecessary, tbh.

But, with all due respect mate, you're making somewhat reasonable (but far-fetched) assumptions about potential future restrictions but are then applying those assumptions to something you clearly know nothing about (commercial property & finance).

Your initial statement that "Nobody will lend a penny to such a development unless the current restrictions disappear fast" isn't just wrong, it's almost worthy of satire. Seriously, @roydo knows what he's talking about here...

 

[number4.]

I agree with this. Nobody can see into the future and life is full of risk, but that doesn't mean you should never subject yourself to any risk. You couldn't do it even if you tried.

But your point about the 'best knowledge available' is a great one. At present, there is an outright ban on stadia attendance due to a novel coronavirus that apparently creates a new strain every two weeks. I simply made the point that a continuation of the present day coronavirus restrictions would make the project unviable. A 500 million pound stadium development is kind of reliant on people being able to attend the stadium.

At present, there is a clear(ish) roadmap to have stadia full by the summer of 2021, two (possibly three) years in advance of the scheduled delivery of BMD

 

[COYBL25]

I think there are still concerns about Covid right now. I mean, at this current moment there is a ban in place that prevents fans from attending stadia.

Hopefully there will be changes and progress in this regard in the near future. But the current conditions are clearly not congruent to a business plan that involves spending half a billion pound on a new stadium.

Nobody will lend a penny to such a development unless the current restrictions disappear fast!

@Dymak meet @davek
@davek meet @Dymak

I`m sure you`ll get on like a house on fire.