2020/21 Moise Kean

[Neiler]

Its not about loyalty it's about time and taking the opportunity. Its not like those two players played zero games for us.

We bought Richarlison at the same age as Lookman. We got Dom at the same age we got Kean.

Both stuck around. Both played. Both improved. Dom in particular has fought to get where is his now.

I'd say its two camps. One that think we've not done enough for the likes of Lookman and Kean...the other sees two players that don't want to be here.

Come on mate, Richarlison is our record signing, you can’t compare he wasn’t trying to break through like Lookman, Lookman was here before Richarlison.

The not wanting to be here argument is lazy, it’s group think to make ourselves feel better, I hate that caricature and I don’t believe it, lads want to play ball, if they were lazy, unambitious and had no fight they’d sit on their backsides here beside Besic and Niasse.

Truth is we had Dortmund in for Lookman, we had PSG in for Kean. DCL at the same age wouldn’t have had those opportunities or interest from clubs of that caliber, it’s easy to stick it out here when you don’t have that level of opportunity.

 

[Tubey]

buddies i really hate to this but u r the farmers and u cultivate everton failure.

There was no sign of Kean coming good here, he was sulking, making no impact on games and out of his depth.

He didn't suit English football. It happens. He's a good player in France and Italy - he wasn't a good player here.

That said, delighted he's doing well as it'll increase his fee. But anyone saying loaning him out was the wrong call is deluding themselves - his trajectory in England was only going one way, and as a result of that loan we now have a £50m asset to sell on instead of a £20m flop.

 

[Deco]

Fuming that we won’t get our money back for him, stupid Brands! lol

 

[BlueToff]

There was no sign of Kean coming good here, he was sulking, making no impact on games and out of his depth.

He didn't suit English football. It happens. He's a good player in France and Italy - he wasn't a good player here.

That said, delighted he's doing well as it'll increase his fee. But anyone saying loaning him out was the wrong call is deluding themselves - his trajectory in England was only going one way, and as a result of that loan we now have a £50m asset to sell on instead of a £20m flop.

Scored in every game he started for us in 2020 - admittedly only 3 like. And then he was our only sub to score all season until Bernard the other day.

Just saying, the 'no impact' thing doesn't wash - if you just talk in terms of goals, which are the best way to build a striker's confidence up and then the work can come elsewhere. That's easier done at PSG than here, I know.

It's more just that it feels like another opportunity wasted. We don't really know where we are as a club. Half of it is wanting to achieve something right now, but then we also want a sustainable model.

What's happened with Kean doesn't exactly bode well for the future when it comes to buying youngsters from the continent. We didn't just sign the lad to make a quick buck on him, but ultimately that's what's going to happen.

It just seems like Silva/Brands, whoever, didn't actually have the right plan for him. That's where the frustration comes in for me.

We didn't need him to be better than Dom right away, we just needed another option.

I acknowledge Kean probably didn't take the chances when he got them, but at the same time, if we're going to progress, we have to start playing some form of more positive football and getting more opportunities for these players in proper systems - the best are front threes.

I see it this way. Had Kean gone to Leicester over us, he'd probably still be in the Prem right now.

 

[Tubey]

Scored in every game he started for us in 2020 - admittedly only 3 like. And then he was our only sub to score all season until Bernard the other day.

Just saying, the 'no impact' thing doesn't wash - if you just talk in terms of goals, which are the best way to build a striker's confidence up and then the work can come elsewhere. That's easier done at PSG than here, I know.

It's more just that it feels like another opportunity wasted. We don't really know where we are as a club. Half of it is wanting to achieve something right now, but then we also want a sustainable model.

What's happened with Kean doesn't exactly bode well for the future when it comes to buying youngsters from the continent. We didn't just sign the lad to make a quick buck on him, but ultimately that's what's going to happen.

It just seems like Silva/Brands, whoever, didn't actually have the right plan for him. That's where the frustration comes in for me.

We didn't need him to be better than Dom right away, we just needed another option.

I acknowledge Kean probably didn't take the chances when he got them, but at the same time, if we're going to progress, we have to start playing some form of more positive football and getting more opportunities for these players in proper systems - the best are front threes.

I see it this way. Had Kean gone to Leicester over us, he'd probably still be in the Prem right now.

Mate, he had 37 games for us and played 'ok' in precisely one of them.

He had no impact. Not just in goals, but just in general play.

I don't actually disagree with you about the shape we're in as a club being a factor, but the Premier League is a unique beast in that it's unforgiving; if you aren't offering anything to earn your place you aren't going to be given time to come good. Calvert-Lewin looked allergic to goalscoring for years but he still was doing enough to justify persisting with - barely - as he battled, tried to bring others into the game etc. So he earned the right.

Did Kean, hand on heart, do anything of the sort here? Of course he didn't.

Would he have if he went to Leicester? Doubtful. Vardy #1, and you have Iheanacho as a direct measuring stick - a player who at Kean's age showed much more at Premier League level than Kean did.

For every Gabriel Jesus, there's 10 Diego Forlan's in the Prem. I think Kean is simply a promising striker in a certain type of league, playing in a certain type of formation at a certain pace. If he comes back rejuvenated and is great for us, I'd be over the moon - however, I'm 99% sure we cash in and, to be fair to Brands, he's played a blinder here with that loan.

 

[BlueToff]

Mate, he had 37 games for us and played 'ok' in precisely one of them.

He had no impact. Not just in goals, but just in general play.

I don't actually disagree with you about the shape we're in as a club being a factor, but the Premier League is a unique beast in that it's unforgiving; if you aren't offering anything to earn your place you aren't going to be given time to come good. Calvert-Lewin looked allergic to goalscoring for years but he still was doing enough to justify persisting with - barely - as he battled, tried to bring others into the game etc. So he earned the right.

Did Kean, hand on heart, do anything of the sort here? Of course he didn't.

Would he have if he went to Leicester? Doubtful. Vardy #1, and you have Iheanacho as a direct measuring stick - a player who at Kean's age showed much more at Premier League level than Kean did.

For every Gabriel Jesus, there's 10 Diego Forlan's in the Prem. I think Kean is simply a promising striker in a certain type of league, playing in a certain type of formation at a certain pace. If he comes back rejuvenated and is great for us, I'd be over the moon - however, I'm 99% sure we cash in and, to be fair to Brands, he's played a blinder here with that loan.

The Leicester example, for me, was just a club / fanbase that seem to have it more measured when it comes to expectations.

They now expect to challenge top four - which is fair enough - but I think they'd probably see an addition like Kean last year as being a clear alternative for their European campaign, or the cups, odd league match, playing under a coach who would have explained that to him and got the best out of him. It almost feels like there'd be less pressure at a club like that than there is here - and this is where we are right now; starved for success, but also wanting this young, vibrant team.

I don't think you have to have that instant impact in your first season to go on and become a good player, that's all. And it just seemed like there wasn't a plan with him last year once the 'chuck him up top in a 4-4-1-1' didn't work - that's obviously on Silva. Weirdly enough, in that pre-lockdown footy under Carlo, he did actually start to look a player, in a 4-4-2, then lockdown happened, and I'm sure that was tough on him as it was everyone else. And he came back and really, he was poor, but the entire team were done weren't they. And again, the only game he started in after lockdown, he scored and played pretty well.

I'm just torn for those reasons - because I know he's a sellable asset who's likely never gonna cut it here. However, it's also that frustration that, for all his faults, the lad is still considered one of the brightest prospects in European football, has a lot of raw talent, and will probably go on (and already is) to play at a much higher level than Everton will do any time soon. Again, I also see that his impatience played a part in him leaving too - he wanted to play.

On that last point. Yeah, i think Brands will ultimately get us a good deal but, I'm not gonna credit him with sorting the move as, actually, it was all Raiola. Kean told Brands and Carlo he wanted to go, multiple times through the summer. They said no. It eventually got late in the window when they caved because Raiola basically came with the full package from PSG - he'd done it all (let's face it, it's what he does).

I trust Brands to go and get us a good fee, because Brands actually wants Kean back, so he won't let him go for cheap.

 

[TheBigIguana]

Completely different player to the one that I saw at Goodison.

His confidence and the better players around him mean he's playing better but I still don't get the people who didn't think he was trying.

 

[TheBigIguana]

Mate, he had 37 games for us and played 'ok' in precisely one of them.

He had no impact. Not just in goals, but just in general play.

I don't actually disagree with you about the shape we're in as a club being a factor, but the Premier League is a unique beast in that it's unforgiving; if you aren't offering anything to earn your place you aren't going to be given time to come good. Calvert-Lewin looked allergic to goalscoring for years but he still was doing enough to justify persisting with - barely - as he battled, tried to bring others into the game etc. So he earned the right.

Did Kean, hand on heart, do anything of the sort here? Of course he didn't.

Would he have if he went to Leicester? Doubtful. Vardy #1, and you have Iheanacho as a direct measuring stick - a player who at Kean's age showed much more at Premier League level than Kean did.

For every Gabriel Jesus, there's 10 Diego Forlan's in the Prem. I think Kean is simply a promising striker in a certain type of league, playing in a certain type of formation at a certain pace. If he comes back rejuvenated and is great for us, I'd be over the moon - however, I'm 99% sure we cash in and, to be fair to Brands, he's played a blinder here with that loan.

People saying he played 37 games are being willfully misleading as anyone with a brain understands that he came off the bench for very few minutes in about 30 of them.

 

[tim cahill]

It'll be interesting to see what happens with him in the summer. I could understand why we'd cash in but he is the kind of player we could do with and I still think he could do well for us if he's motivated.

 

[TheBigIguana]

Honestly if Carlo commits to playing 4-3-1-2 Kean fits here like a glove. But trying to make him a winger to fit DCL and him in the same team is not on. Especially if the other winger is Richarlison.

 

[Tubey]

People saying he played 37 games are being willfully misleading as anyone with a brain understands that he came off the bench for very few minutes in about 30 of them.

I get that but the issue was when given a chance, the odd 20-30 minutes, he looked disinterested. He never made himself an option.

He has one of the greatest managers in the modern game, a compatriot of his, at the club, and was allowed to leave. There's a reason for that, and it isn't that Ancelotti has gone senile. It's twofold - one, the player wanted out and two, the club didn't see him as valuable enough to keep.

 

[TheBigIguana]

I get that but the issue was when given a chance, the odd 20-30 minutes, he looked disinterested. He never made himself an option.

He has one of the greatest managers in the modern game, a compatriot of his, at the club, and was allowed to leave. There's a reason for that, and it isn't that Ancelotti has gone senile. It's twofold - one, the player wanted out and two, the club didn't see him as valuable enough to keep.

And this is where I just leave the conversation. I can't do all the "he doesn't care," "he's disinterested," "all he did is sulk" crap. Because that is all it is. Pure horse manure.

 

[Tubey]

The Leicester example, for me, was just a club / fanbase that seem to have it more measured when it comes to expectations.

They now expect to challenge top four - which is fair enough - but I think they'd probably see an addition like Kean last year as being a clear alternative for their European campaign, or the cups, odd league match, playing under a coach who would have explained that to him and got the best out of him. It almost feels like there'd be less pressure at a club like that than there is here - and this is where we are right now; starved for success, but also wanting this young, vibrant team.

I don't think you have to have that instant impact in your first season to go on and become a good player, that's all. And it just seemed like there wasn't a plan with him last year once the 'chuck him up top in a 4-4-1-1' didn't work - that's obviously on Silva. Weirdly enough, in that pre-lockdown footy under Carlo, he did actually start to look a player, in a 4-4-2, then lockdown happened, and I'm sure that was tough on him as it was everyone else. And he came back and really, he was poor, but the entire team were done weren't they. And again, the only game he started in after lockdown, he scored and played pretty well.

I'm just torn for those reasons - because I know he's a sellable asset who's likely never gonna cut it here. However, it's also that frustration that, for all his faults, the lad is still considered one of the brightest prospects in European football, has a lot of raw talent, and will probably go on (and already is) to play at a much higher level than Everton will do any time soon. Again, I also see that his impatience played a part in him leaving too - he wanted to play.

On that last point. Yeah, i think Brands will ultimately get us a good deal but, I'm not gonna credit him with sorting the move as, actually, it was all Raiola. Kean told Brands and Carlo he wanted to go, multiple times through the summer. They said no. It eventually got late in the window when they caved because Raiola basically came with the full package from PSG - he'd done it all (let's face it, it's what he does).

I trust Brands to go and get us a good fee, because Brands actually wants Kean back, so he won't let him go for cheap.

Bold bit - when Kean joined, I specifically said I won't be judging him for at least 12 months on goals. I didn't care about him scoring. What I wanted to see was effort, a commitment to succeed - even if he looked a bit culture shocked I'd at least be looking to see signs of what he could be.

The problem with Kean, in all his time here, is that I saw nothing of the sort. I saw more from Niasse - at least he was awkwardly effective the odd game. With Kean, you can tell he has quality, obviously (low centre of gravity, good turn of pace, hits a shot well) but to my eyes he looked the antithesis of a striker in the English game.

I agree Brands would prefer to keep him; I'm guessing Ancelotti wouldn't mind either. But I think the player wants out and has done, going by everything I've seen, since about 2-3 weeks of being in England. I'm convinced he didn't want to be here and didn't suit the style of the league.

 

[TommyDavo]

I get that but the issue was when given a chance, the odd 20-30 minutes, he looked disinterested. He never made himself an option.

He has one of the greatest managers in the modern game, a compatriot of his, at the club, and was allowed to leave. There's a reason for that, and it isn't that Ancelotti has gone senile. It's twofold - one, the player wanted out and two, the club didn't see him as valuable enough to keep.

You called it wrong like a few others, get over it

 

[Tubey]

You called it wrong like a few others, get over it

Erm... how?

He hasn't magically transformed into a different player - he's just changed leagues and clubs. He's playing alongside Neymar, Icardi and Mbappe in a much weaker league - he was always going to look better. The only surprise is how much better he's done.

But the idea he'd get a game ahead of Calvert-Lewin, based on what we've seen? Laughable. Josh King is a more proven option at this level - much more proven.