2020/21 Carlo Ancelotti

[catcherintherye]

The best Everton teams in my living memory had neither a philosophy nor a fixed style.

They had attitude.

Like the best Ferguson sides did. Want to play football? Fine by us. Want a fight? Bring it on.

I think thats also true. I'm really not convinced, that finding a manager who always plays the same formation or tactics is the answer. How well we apply those tactics is what we lack.

 

[catcherintherye]

I think it's because he was a terrible manager personally.

Part of picking a system to build toward is the system actually being one that works. I mean I could say I want to bring back the 2-3-5 and try and do that but obviously I'd get my ass kicked. Martinez wanted to try and build a possession based team in a system that didn't do a good job of connecting the midfield and the attack so we largely just passed it around 50 yards or more from goal.

The difference for me is we showed through 10 games or so that Carlo's 4-3-3 could work and instead of settling in and trying to tweak that he went at the first trouble and completely revolutionized the whole thing. I get the pragmatic thing but I think you have to ask how high you want to aim? If we're always making the best decision for the present moment without an eye to 6 months, a year, two years from now we will often find ourselves not making any real upward progress.

That's not to say we should actively try to lose football matches but can we play our preferred system for the future against Sheffield United and West Ham and not have a chance to win on the day too?

We talked about Pep a lot but another good example of this is Mourinho. There's a reason why his teams peak about 12-18 months into the time he's been at the club. I loathe his tactics but he knows what he wants and molds his team to it.

But sticking to a system, when it's not working, is what winds people up.

 

[roydo]

I think thats also true. I'm really not convinced, that finding a manager who always plays the same formation or tactics is the answer. How well we apply those tactics is what we lack.

Any new comer to English football, and Everton in particular, should watch the 0 0 away against Bayern and the 3 1 second leg.
Tactical flexibility away, attitude at 0 1 down at home. One of the most amazing matches Ferguson himself admitted watching.

The list of Fergusons United matches is obviously longer.

 

[maccavennie]

The best Everton teams in my living memory had neither a philosophy nor a fixed style.

They had attitude.

Like the best Ferguson sides did. Want to play football? Fine by us. Want a fight? Bring it on.

Yep, you need players who are up for the fight. Watching Howard's Way over Christmas and you look at the 84/85 side......what we wouldn't give right now for 2 or 3 of them.

Just love watching clips of Reid balling and cajoling his team mates, a man possessed because it matters to him and that's infectious.

 

[TheBigIguana]

But sticking to a system, when it's not working, is what winds people up.

Some things take time.

Sometimes, as in the case with our 4-3-3, tweaks are all that is needed not a complete blowup.

And really the manager shouldn't be concerned with winding people up if he knows what he's doing.

 

[TheBigIguana]

I think thats also true. I'm really not convinced, that finding a manager who always plays the same formation or tactics is the answer. How well we apply those tactics is what we lack.

I'm not suggesting never changing anything. What I am suggesting is having a base of things that you're going to stick to most of the time. I'm not crazy, I understand when you play the RS you've got to do things a bit different than when you play Burnley but if you're playing 4-3-3 in one and 3-4-1-2 in the other is it going to be easy to keep the team at a consistent level?

 

[Egil Olsen]

Would a collection of a team's positions not be their formation?

I'm not trying to be an ass I just think if you look at the way Guardiola's best teams have conducted themselves they've all had a pretty uniform setup regardless of what words anyone wants to use to describe it. For me if we're bringing up Guardiola in a discussion about whether a team should try to build to a certain way of playing and not constantly changing based on the present circumstances he can only be an example of why that is the correct way of doing it.

The short answer is no. It is his principles that provide continuity. He has often preferred a 4-3-3 formation, and this is about depth and width. But there are many ways to play 4-3-3, and the formation gives you very little information. His principles work in any formation, some better than others. Therefore, he also experiments very often.

 

[TheBigIguana]

The short answer is no. It is his principles that provide continuity. He has often preferred a 4-3-3 formation, and this is about depth and width. But there are many ways to play 4-3-3, and the formation gives you very little information. His principles work in any formation, some better than others. Therefore, he also experiments very often.

I get that, I really am only using the numbers for the ease of it, but I guess as a question what are Carlo's principles at the minute? We've spent half the season playing as a fairly aggressive attacking side looking to outplay teams including the RS and United and then we've gone to being an extremely conservative side looking to pinch every game?

I know injuries, but that's a big shift.

 

[Goat]

I get that, I really am only using the numbers for the ease of it, but I guess as a question what are Carlo's principles at the minute? We've spent half the season playing as a fairly aggressive attacking side looking to outplay teams including the RS and United and then we've gone to being an extremely conservative side looking to pinch every game?

I know injuries, but that's a big shift.

Read above what I posted.

Carlo likes to experiment, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, his trophy haul suggests he gets it right more than he doesnt.

 

[catcherintherye]

Some things take time.

Sometimes, as in the case with our 4-3-3, tweaks are all that is needed not a complete blowup.

And really the manager shouldn't be concerned with winding people up if he knows what he's doing.

Well how long do you want people to wait for? Until we find out that it may just be the manager who's not good enough, like with Silva or Martinez?

 

[roydo]

I get that, I really am only using the numbers for the ease of it, but I guess as a question what are Carlo's principles at the minute? We've spent half the season playing as a fairly aggressive attacking side looking to outplay teams including the RS and United and then we've gone to being an extremely conservative side looking to pinch every game?

I know injuries, but that's a big shift.

Simply put, his principle is to win a football match with the players he has at his disposal.

I cant see why that is difficult to grasp.

 

[catcherintherye]

I'm not suggesting never changing anything. What I am suggesting is having a base of things that you're going to stick to most of the time. I'm not crazy, I understand when you play the RS you've got to do things a bit different than when you play Burnley but if you're playing 4-3-3 in one and 3-4-1-2 in the other is it going to be easy to keep the team at a consistent level?

Ok so you want a manager who has a consistent system. But not like Silva or Martinez as they were poor managers. You also are ok with him changing systems for some games. But not too many games. Is that about right?

I mean Jurgen Klopp and Pep change their formations too. I can't think of a manager who doesn't change formations.

 

[catcherintherye]

Simply put, his principle is to win a football match with the players he has at his disposal.

I cant see why that is difficult to grasp.

And he should be judged on how many games he wins, not how many games he uses the same formation.

 

[Goat]

Ok so you want a manager who has a consistent system. But not like Silva or Martinez as they were poor managers. You also are ok with him changing systems for some games. But not too many games. Is that about right?

I mean Jurgen Klopp and Pep change their formations too. I can't think of a manager who doesn't change formations.

I bet he doesnt even win the league on FM that fella.

 

[TheBigIguana]

Well how long do you want people to wait for? Until we find out that it may just be the manager who's not good enough, like with Silva or Martinez?

I think you can usually see some signs of progress or the lack of progress. With Silva for instance it became clear, at least it is to me now but I think I said it that summer too, that he was over-reliant on Gueye to cover his lackluster press. So there was no sense in waiting.

I don't think there is a catch all answer to that. But sometimes it is useful to give the guy time to build.