ECHO Comment: "Fears of Witch-hunt Against Liverpool FC" part 3

[davek]

No way. Is that real??

Did he actually say that or have you pasted his name into someone else's statement?

Klopp voices sympathy for Lance Armstrong

Borussia Dortmund manager Jurgen Klopp has voiced sympathy for disgraced cyclist Lance Armstrong, saying: "There are worse crimes than what Armstrong has done."

www.espn.co.uk

 

[Saint Domingo]

I don't suscribe to the doping stuff at all, but they are odd quotes defending Armstrong.

Either way, his team collapsed at Dortmund, and you are beginning to see similar here. It's no surprise. I do wonder if he will start to engineer a departure by increasingly picking fights with the FA/PL.

Look at where some of that team are now.

Lewandowski, Hummels, Gundogan - still at the top level (although only Lewandowski has improved)

Goetze Reus Subotic Sahin Kagawa Grosskreutz Santana Barrios - some of them should have been the brightest talents in European football, instead not only did they not hit that level, most aren’t even playing top league football any more.

They burned unbelievably brightly for a period under Klopp then declined massively.

 

[davek]

I just don't see it myself, but who knows.

Either way, things look to be going very wrong for them at the moment. It imploded late on with Dortmund, and I think it will go that way with Liverpool. Matip will be injured again soon.

He's a doper.

Mark my words, that asterisk title will be taken off them in a few years time.

 

[number4.]

I am with you mate, I don't buy the doping stuff. Why did it take him 4-5 years to win something? Why did it all go to hell at Dortmund if they were etc?

Something has changed though. My own feeling is they are starting to fall off a cliff, at a simiar point, and that then puts more strain on others.

I watched a documentary series on Dortmund recently, and Hummells basically said Klopp expected unbelievable amounts from them, and the problem was,sometimes people couldn't give it, and in the end they ended up broken.

These players who are injured too,willreally struggle to come back in at the level they were at before. Thats also the point with Klopp and his teams. Once players get injured they rarely come back to that same level. You look at their big players, Arnold, VVD, Robertson, Salah, Mane etc most of the time they have remained fit.

Then you look at say, Lallana, Wijnaldum, Matip, Lovren, Moreno, Sturridge,Origi, Shaqiri, Brewster etc. Once they were injured once, they never really had the same impact again. Outside of Henderson, very hard to think of any who have.

I think the standard he expects, once you are bursing an injury makes it very hard to be able to return to that intensity.

If I was to guess, he knew this might come & they were planning to break up the team with one or two big sales this summer and a rebuilding job. Covid scuppered that and as such they doubled down on the same team for one more year which has blown up in their face.

Certainly does feel like the cliff edge and you are right, its a vicious cycle, More injuries means more risk to those remaining........

Regarding the juicing point, it simply cannot be unique to one team or manager, there is too many staff (medical and players) moving between clubs for this to remain confidential. Either they are all at it and it is systemic across the board or the more likely is that they are pushing sports science and TUE's to the absolute max. Although, when you look at the fuentes case and the Dr's involved there, it would suggest that certainly one, if not two of the Big two in spain have crossed the line.

 

[davek]

At the VERY least we can say that Klopp is 'extremely relaxed' and 'understanding' of the motives to cheat.....the VERY least.

 

[chrismpw]

If other clubs are using chemical enhancements I wonder if everton are using depressants - antistimulants- to allow players to hang around into their mid to late 30s instead of burning out.

Explains our play sometimes.

 

[catcherintherye]

Mate, salah came back after a really serious shoulder injury and was fine. He was crying and left a final so it must have been nearly career ending

You could say Salah yes, but again he hasn't been quite as good as he was that season though. Most of them aren't though.

 

[catcherintherye]

At the VERY least we can say that Klopp is 'extremely relaxed' and 'understanding' of the motives to cheat.....the VERY least.

Well more than that, he goes out of his way to defend a cheat. Thats very odd in and of itself.

 

[catcherintherye]

Look at where some of that team are now.

Lewandowski, Hummels, Gundogan - still at the top level (although only Lewandowski has improved)

Goetze Reus Subotic Sahin Kagawa Grosskreutz Santana Barrios - some of them should have been the brightest talents in European football, instead not only did they not hit that level, most aren’t even playing top league football any more.

They burned unbelievably brightly for a period under Klopp then declined massively.

Well you kind of answer your own point there. All of those top players, and only 1 has really improved as you thought. The rest once injuries kicked in just declined. Add that to a Chamberlain, Keita, Milner, Lallana, Sturridge, Origi, Lovren,Moreno,Shaqiri etc and you start to get a pattern.

I think soon we will be adding VVD,Gomez, Fabinho, Matip, Firmino, Thiago and Wijnaldum to that list as well.

 

[Saint Domingo]

He's a doper.

Mark my words, that asterisk title will be taken off them in a few years time.

Milner is setting premier league running distance records at the age of 35 and they’ve gone two seasons playing three games a week without a single player dropping their level even once, and people think it’s all natural.

 

[Liam-EFC]

 

[Saint Domingo]

Well you kind of answer your own point there. All of those top players, and only 1 has really improved as you thought. The rest once injuries kicked in just declined. Add that to a Chamberlain, Keita, Milner, Lallana, Sturridge, Origi, Lovren,Moreno,Shaqiri etc and you start to get a pattern.

I think soon we will be adding VVD,Gomez, Fabinho, Matip, Firmino, Thiago and Wijnaldum to that list as well.

This is a player that has only just turned 30 yet he looks completely broken. His decline has been massive yet he should still be in his prime.

 

[catcherintherye]

If I was to guess, he knew this might come & they were planning to break up the team with one or two big sales this summer and a rebuilding job. Covid scuppered that and as such they doubled down on the same team for one more year which has blown up in their face.

Certainly does feel like the cliff edge and you are right, its a vicious cycle, More injuries means more risk to those remaining........

Regarding the juicing point, it simply cannot be unique to one team or manager, there is too many staff (medical and players) moving between clubs for this to remain confidential. Either they are all at it and it is systemic across the board or the more likely is that they are pushing sports science and TUE's to the absolute max. Although, when you look at the fuentes case and the Dr's involved there, it would suggest that certainly one, if not two of the Big two in spain have crossed the line.

I think a couple of things happened for them and it's been a bit of a perfect storm. Firstly nobody wanted Mane in summer 19. Madrid wouldn't go beyond 70m. They wanted in excess of 100, it got laughed off.

The crisis then happened, and they were in essence the traderleft with too much stock in a brutal recession. Loads of players, on long term deals who now will not only not gain much value, but actually you struggle to get rid of them.

It killed the market for Wilson, Shaqiri, Origi, Grugic, Brewster, Chamberlain, Karius etc. There are more but I'm a bit too ill tonight to think of them. In most cases they are left loaning them out, and only getting some of their wages met. Not big fees as they hoped.

I think they had hoped for fans to be back by now. Each game they are not it's killing them. United's financial results are grim, and theirs will be much much worse.

They have a Manchester City style wages budget, with a good but not world leading commercial operation and now not being able to trade. Those players they have are drains.

I can see why their owners are panicking and making idiots of themselves, making outlandish moves. It's panic.

In fairness it's not their owners fault. They were doing what you should do in good teams. Hedging and being bold on them continuing. Unfortunately recessions are cruel, and often punish people unduly who had previously done the right things. The trader with too much stock comes to mind.

 

[davek]

Milner is setting premier league running distance records at the age of 35 and they’ve gone two seasons playing three games a weekend without a single player dropping their level even once, and people think it’s all natural.

If this was Leicester putting it in over a few seasons there'd be questions asked. This lot have the media sown up. The Establishment club. Too big to fail.

They can control the propganda, but they cant control the bodies of their players, who are now demonstrating the same signs of breakdown that Klopp's Dortmund teams suffered.

 

[number4.]

Milner is setting premier league running distance records at the age of 35 and they’ve gone two seasons playing three games a week without a single player dropping their level even once, and people think it’s all natural.

for balance, he is 34 & set that record in 2015, when playing for Man city