New Everton Stadium Discussion

[ForeverBlue92]

I'll be honest - providing the stadium itself is boss & the naming rights help give us the funds to avert FFP and spend more im not that bothered on capacity.

I wanted 55k and think thats a realistic size going forward but 53k isnt that bad.

 

[GwladysBlue]

I'll be honest - providing the stadium itself is boss & the naming rights help give us the funds to avert FFP and spend more im not that bothered on capacity.

I wanted 55k and think thats a realistic size going forward but 53k isnt that bad.

It’ll end up at 55k anyway

 

[Bluestar]

You get two people in the one space for rail seating mate.

I’ve done a bit of reading on this and you don’t. It’s a fold up seat with a retractable rail. The capacity is the same.

 

[andy4efc]

I don’t know if this applies to our design, but I watched a video ages ago which showed that when he seat folds. It leaves two levels within that row wallowing for two people. I’ll see if I can find it when I get home.

I’ve done a bit of reading on this and you don’t. It’s a fold up seat with a retractable rail. The capacity is the same.

that’s what I’m basing my knowledge on really. I bet day I’m overly worried about the capacity really as the revenue wil come from other things. I’d rather have a full52k every week and expand the hgame h th demand is there. Not convince wewould fill 62k myself, not at the moment

 

[jayonenote]

You get two people in the one space for rail seating mate.

You don't

 

[Catfish Blues]

You get two people in the one space for rail seating mate.

When implemented, it'll look something like

If a change in the law allows the seats to be retracted for domestic games, it will almost certainly start with a 1:1 ratio. But, in theory at least, you can get two people in each space behing each rail. It'd be very cosy, and I can't say I'd fancy it, but it's possible.

In Germany, rail seating areas, when used for standing, tend to operate on ratios of 1.2:1 to 1.8:1

Realistically, if we did something similar at Bramley Moore, we'd be looking at a ratio of something like 1.5. I forget the capacity for the opposite stand, but the main stand behind the goal will have a standard capacity of 13,000, so a 1.5 ratio would add 6,500 to that. Taking it up to 62,000 only needs an extra 3 or 4k at the other end.

My understanding is that both stands will be, in terms of things like concourses, toilets and general egress issues, designed to cope with the extra capacity.

Obviously, if money gets tight, they might not put everything in place to support the extra capacity from day one, but there should be the square metres required to do so at a later date.

Whether or not it'll ever get expanded by 10k by using extra capacity provided by rail seating is another thing entirely.

My personal view is that, some time in the next five to ten years after we open, is that we'll see an increase in capacity down to squeezing more people into rail seated areas, but it won't involve all the areas in the South and North stands.

So I reckon we'll open at just under 53k, and see that, in the fullness of time, increase to something like 58k as the lower or middle areas get converted to expanded standing.

 

[H.H.]

If the widths steps in the bowl are of the correct size and width to allow for extra standing spaces (Spurs isn't.)
I think Everton also wrote that it's going to only be the North and South stands that are going to be made with extra capacity (rail seating) in mind so that rules out the East and West having that capability and why do you think Everton can up it to 1.5-1?
When the government finally allow rail seating/standing to finally be allowed, will it ever be to be more than at a 1-1 ratio?

 

[andy4efc]

When implemented, it'll look something like

View attachment 95457

If a change in the law allows the seats to be retracted for domestic games, it will almost certainly start with a 1:1 ratio. But, in theory at least, you can get two people in each space behing each rail. It'd be very cosy, and I can't say I'd fancy it, but it's possible.

In Germany, rail seating areas, when used for standing, tend to operate on ratios of 1.2:1 to 1.8:1

Realistically, if we did something similar at Bramley Moore, we'd be looking at a ratio of something like 1.5. I forget the capacity for the opposite stand, but the main stand behind the goal will have a standard capacity of 13,000, so a 1.5 ratio would add 6,500 to that. Taking it up to 62,000 only needs an extra 3 or 4k at the other end.

My understanding is that both stands will be, in terms of things like concourses, toilets and general egress issues, designed to cope with the extra capacity.

Obviously, if money gets tight, they might not put everything in place to support the extra capacity from day one, but there should be the square metres required to do so at a later date.

Whether or not it'll ever get expanded by 10k by using extra capacity provided by rail seating is another thing entirely.

My personal view is that, some time in the next five to ten years after we open, is that we'll see an increase in capacity down to squeezing more people into rail seated areas, but it won't involve all the areas in the South and North stands.

So I reckon we'll open at just under 53k, and see that, in the fullness of time, increase to something like 58k as the lower or middle areas get converted to expanded standing.

Thanks mate that is what i was referring to earlier. I've seen before someone having that levels being wide enough for two people and that's what im going about. You're right though, think it could go to 58k in total maybe. See how it goes. Fill 52k each week first though.

 

[Catfish Blues]

and why do you think Everton can up it to 1.5-1?

That, quite literally, is my best engineering judgement, based on an analysis of what I've seen implemented in other European countries, and on what I've seen from the club ( in the public domain ) on the design of the stands. Far as I can see, there's no techical reason to suggest that 1.5:1 isn't achievable, in a manner which is generally accepted to be safe.

To turn it round, the implication is that you think that's not going to happen, so what, apart from maybe playing a cheeky kind of devil's advocate on a rival's forum*, is your reasoning behind that ?

When the government finally allow rail seating/standing to finally be allowed, will it ever be to be more than at a 1-1 ratio?

That's plainly the most important question, and, my best judgement is that they'll initially legislate to allow at it 1:1 and if that works fine, they'll gradually increase the allowable ratio. In time, the highest allowable ratio being primarily dependent on the dimensions of the rail seating area ( depth and width ) and egress conditions.

I'm reasonably confident that the club's representatives will have had informal discussions at appropriate government dept levels to see what sort of feedback they got. Plainly governments come and go, and can change their mind, but the cost of designing in the possibility of switching to a ratio of > 1 is likely worth the risk.

*which is fine, and, in general, can be amusing, but can sometimes turn into being tiresome

 

[H.H.]

I’m never my sometimes “cheeky” self on this stadium thread and you’re correct, I was making my judgement on the assumption that because for at least 20 years both Labour and Conservative governments have known that safe standing is safe, they still haven’t yet allowed it and that’s why I don’t think they will ever allow 1.5-1 standing at stadiums.
Good post by the way .

Thinking about it again, if Everton are already “squeezing” in as many seats into the bowl as possible, I wonder if they are willing to not have as many rows as possible now (maximum capacity) in the hope allow for a possible government Change in X years amount of time?

 

[paulbefc]

To turn it round, the implication is that you think that's not going to happen, so what, apart from maybe playing a cheeky kind of devil's advocate on a rival's forum*, is your reasoning behind that ?

To ensure you don't waste your time here, going forward, firstly the poster has absolutely no good reasoning and secondly that is exactly what the poster is doing.

 

[Catfish Blues]

To ensure you don't waste your time here, going forward, firstly the poster has absolutely no good reasoning and secondly that is exactly what the poster is doing.

I know mate, I was merely dangling a carrot ...

 

[McMagicT]

When implemented, it'll look something like

View attachment 95457

If a change in the law allows the seats to be retracted for domestic games, it will almost certainly start with a 1:1 ratio. But, in theory at least, you can get two people in each space behing each rail. It'd be very cosy, and I can't say I'd fancy it, but it's possible.

In Germany, rail seating areas, when used for standing, tend to operate on ratios of 1.2:1 to 1.8:1

Realistically, if we did something similar at Bramley Moore, we'd be looking at a ratio of something like 1.5. I forget the capacity for the opposite stand, but the main stand behind the goal will have a standard capacity of 13,000, so a 1.5 ratio would add 6,500 to that. Taking it up to 62,000 only needs an extra 3 or 4k at the other end.

My understanding is that both stands will be, in terms of things like concourses, toilets and general egress issues, designed to cope with the extra capacity.

Obviously, if money gets tight, they might not put everything in place to support the extra capacity from day one, but there should be the square metres required to do so at a later date.

Whether or not it'll ever get expanded by 10k by using extra capacity provided by rail seating is another thing entirely.

My personal view is that, some time in the next five to ten years after we open, is that we'll see an increase in capacity down to squeezing more people into rail seated areas, but it won't involve all the areas in the South and North stands.

So I reckon we'll open at just under 53k, and see that, in the fullness of time, increase to something like 58k as the lower or middle areas get converted to expanded standing.

The above concludes the Conservative view on the Bramley Moor New Boys Pen. It is riddled with LIES
and should be abandoned. Everton should have a new stadium as big as the new White Hart Lane, we
are as good as Spurs and we deserve something special. Give the rich men their money back and fight
our corner properly.

 

[Catfish Blues]

The above concludes the Conservative view on the Bramley Moor New Boys Pen. It is riddled with LIES
and should be abandoned. Everton should have a new stadium as big as the new White Hart Lane, we
are as good as Spurs and we deserve something special. Give the rich men their money back and fight
our corner properly.

 

[The binman chronicles]

I’ve done a bit of reading on this and you don’t. It’s a fold up seat with a retractable rail. The capacity is the same.

Once you fold up the seat you are left with a blank row that you can put however many humans* that will fit in that space (*obviously up to regulations at that point).

It's whether these regulations change over time will be the key. There really shouldn't be an issue with a higher ratio in a stadium that was designed from the outset to cope with it but perhaps older stadia might cause issues for us as they try and jump on the bandwagon to increase capacity, unless each stadium has its own unique ratio allowed.