New Everton Stadium Discussion

[Tramps_mate]

Sorry to ask what may be a daft question, but what does that mean in terms of the stadium? Would they have to dig down a lot deeper and that would drive up the cost, or doesn't it mean they just can't build there period?

Oh and given Degsy's post above about the dock walls holding back all that water and thinking of current events in Doncaster, does that mean there's risk to the area due to weak foundations?

If they had anticipated competent rock at say 15m depth then that is where the concrete piles design would go to. But if the competent rock isn't until 50m depth, of which there's a good chance as the Sherwood Sandstone can be extremely week for dozens of metres in depth, then the piling costs could be many many more times than first thought.. With the proximity of the river I would have thought that the rock would be quite weak for quite a depth tbh.

 

[roydo]

If they had anticipated competent rock at say 15m depth then that is where the concrete piles design would go to. But if the competent rock isn't until 50m depth, of which there's a good chance as the Sherwood Sandstone can be extremely week for dozens of metres in depth, then the piling costs could be many many more times than first thought.. With the proximity of the river I would have thought that the rock would be quite weak for quite a depth tbh.

I have not got a clue about geology, and even less about building big stuff. So please humour me.

But wouldnt that issue of deeper foundations or piling apply to anything built on the entire development? I fully understand that a small block of flats would weigh less than a football stadium, but a large office block would surely face the same problem.

And if the rock at 15m is not competent now, would that not mean that any building in Liverpool with foundations at the level, could now be compromised?

Like I said, humour me. Its the probably like asking J K Rowling if Harry Potter is real.

 

[alvinh]

If they had anticipated competent rock at say 15m depth then that is where the concrete piles design would go to. But if the competent rock isn't until 50m depth, of which there's a good chance as the Sherwood Sandstone can be extremely week for dozens of metres in depth, then the piling costs could be many many more times than first thought.. With the proximity of the river I would have thought that the rock would be quite weak for quite a depth tbh.

Thanks for the explanation. Even without doing the maths on the site dimensions I get that we're talking about shifting a lot more rocks.

 

[arch stanton]

I have not got a clue about geology, and even less about building big stuff. So please humour me.

But wouldnt that issue of deeper foundations or piling apply to anything built on the entire development? I fully understand that a small block of flats would weigh less than a football stadium, but a large office block would surely face the same problem.

And if the rock at 15m is not competent now, would that not mean that any building in Liverpool with foundations at the level, could now be compromised?

Like I said, humour me. Its the probably like asking J K Rowling if Harry Potter is real.

and I would guess that in thew scheme of big buildings, football stadia don't weigh very much, there's a lot of air and space in them and spread over a big area.

 

[roydo]

and I would guess that in thew scheme of big buildings, football stadia don't weigh very much, there's a lot of air and space in them and spread over a big area.

Kinda my thoughts as well. As a bloke who would struggle with a shed mind.

 

[Eggs]

and I would guess that in thew scheme of big buildings, football stadia don't weigh very much, there's a lot of air and space in them and spread over a big area.

...except when they’re full of human beings.

 

[roydo]

...except when they’re full of human beings.

Fair point. But nevertheless, if the foundations for the ground are like drilling to the centre of the earth, I still fail to see why that would be an issue for us, but no other development on the same patch of sandstone.

Oh, btw, Mrs R has nicked the black top you sent me ffs. Was my fave as well.

 

[alvinh]

and I would guess that in thew scheme of big buildings, football stadia don't weigh very much, there's a lot of air and space in them and spread over a big area.

Sounds logical, but in a modern stadium the weight of the roof is concentrated in a small area, if you think of those big metal arches that the roof hangs from?

 

[arch stanton]

...except when they’re full of human beings.

speak for yourself fatso xx

 

[Eggs]

speak for yourself fatso xx

...I have to admit that bits of me wobble when I come down the stairs that never used to wobble!!

 

[Catfish Blues]

Yes, I know. I'm an engineering geologist. I know the guys that did the drilling at Bramley Moore.

The sandstone is extremely weak and weathered in a lot of places. Bedrock may well be found at 10-15m, but it may not be competent until 50-60m at times.

fwiw, United Utilities drove 900mm piles down to about 15 metres when they filled in Sandon dock the other year, and it's only a hop, skip and jump to BMD.

Obviously there could be site specific issues with the geology at Bramley Moore which didn't exist next door, but it'd be very unlucky if that was the case.

 

[Eggs]

Fair point. But nevertheless, if the foundations for the ground are like drilling to the centre of the earth, I still fail to see why that would be an issue for us, but no other development on the same patch of sandstone.

Oh, btw, Mrs R has nicked the black top you sent me ffs. Was my fave as well.

...ha, ha, Mrs Eggs is the same, glad you like it.

 

[Tramps_mate]

fwiw, United Utilities drove 900mm piles down to about 15 metres when they filled in Sandon dock the other year, and it's only a hop, skip and jump to BMD.

Obviously there could be site specific issues with the geology at Bramley Moore which didn't exist next door, but it'd be very unlucky if that was the case.

Oh, don't get me wrong, the comments I made are speculation on the rock and piling.

 

[degsy]

Yes, I know. I'm an engineering geologist. I know the guys that did the drilling at Bramley Moore.

The sandstone is extremely weak and weathered in a lot of places. Bedrock may well be found at 10-15m, but it may not be competent until 50-60m at times.

Hence all the test bores in 2017. There's always something with Everton isnt there.

That well known cost eater - Unforseen works below ground

 

[degsy]

...except when they’re full of human beings.

On the back of a beer mat.
4 people @100kg per sq. m. = 0.4t
52,000 ÷ 4 = 13,000 sq. M.
5,200t
(disclaimer, seriously out of my depth here)
There are engineering tables for everthing, no doubt, theres one for the amount
of steel and concrete required to hold up X kg per sq.m. + its own weight.
This will give you a ball park cost figure
Test bores will add to that figure.
Then theres factors of safety, plus other stuff i have even less clue about
Given @Tramps_mate info about the bores, maybe serious number crunching going on.
'Unforseen works below ground' always costs.
How much is the question
Mostly you get (unless Govts are funding it) the old...you can have any 2 from 3 - its your pick.
From
Quality
Cost
Speed.
So until we know know way or the other - a cost over run on the foumdations is just as likely as unlikely.
As always with anything Everton related.
More questions than answers