Byetinga

[kenada_blue]

Jag's hoofing is something I bring up a lot myself. Distin does it too, but he often runs with it well, give him credit for that, and when he does hoof it, 20% of the time it will hit an Everton player. That's 30% more than Jag's hoofs do.


And Arteta's been poor, I've got to agree.

Its a bit all over the shop sometimes. Unless its they're being told to do it because I remember seeing Jags in one of the internationals and he didnt hoof once.

Could be down to players not dropping and wanting the ball so the players have to hoof. Or, which seemed the case against Arsenal, being told to hoof if to the forward 2 and see what happens.

 

[RFUS]

Its a bit all over the shop sometimes. Unless its they're being told to do it because I remember seeing Jags in one of the internationals and he didnt hoof once.

Could be down to players not dropping and wanting the ball so the players have to hoof. Or, which seemed the case against Arsenal, being told to hoof if to the forward 2 and see what happens.

Honestly, I don't know who's telling whom to hoof it, but it needs to stop. Heitinga admittedly is the only one of them who knows how to nail a long ball.

 

[ToxtethBlue]

You could call his performances average or IMO solid. Its been noticable when he's off the field that the team turns to [Poor language removed] because the shape is gone. I agree he's not breaking things up as much as you could want, but he's not passing the buck on those responsibilities and IMO offers more freedom to Arteta to move forward because he holds the teams shape.

Fellaini strangles Arteta somewhat IMO because he's up and down leaving Arteta deeper. It can work, but its an understanding that needs to be developed. If remember there being some gaping holes in the midfield at the start of the season when Fellaini and Arteta started because they're not understanding each other as of yet.

They are 2 different types of DM players.

As for Heitinga...IMO you look at the results and how the team plays before thinking "how do we add to this?". We all know the problems are in the final 3rd and not the midfield as such. So just dropping Heitinga for Fellaini or who ever isnt entirely justified as I cant see how much different in terms of offering protection to the back 4 they would be.

I think there's a bit of a myth surrounding Arteta's style of play, probably because of his time as a attacking midfielder/wide player a few years ago. Despite being considered the 'attacking midfielder', he's more often than not online with the defensive midfielder, and takes up as many defensive duties as they do.

http://vimeo.com/16362156

That, for me, is a typical Arteta performance. Look at the amount of times he picks up the ball in deeper positions, and is behind Heitinga, rather than infront of him. Positionally, his style doesn't change much whether he's playing alongside Heitinga, Neville or Fellaini. He has to take the ball more alongside Heitinga because Johnny, for all his qualities, doesn't always get involved when we have the ball. I think that comes to how much space he has, rather than shying away from the ball. He's a centre back really, more than anything, and whilst he is an excellent passer, he doesn't have the touch, close control and agility of a typical midfielder.

If he played like he did against Stoke every week I'd agree with you, but he doesn't, and Fellaini offers alot more consistency in this area. I don't think the big man is outstanding in possession, his distribution is simple stuff really, but he takes the ball much more than Heitinga. Defensively, I don't think either of them are outstanding, positionally, they are both behind Neville and even Arteta. They both have a tendency to leave big gaps in midfield.

 

[kenada_blue]

I think there's a bit of a myth surrounding Arteta's style of play, probably because of his time as a attacking midfielder/wide player a few years ago. Despite being considered the 'attacking midfielder', he's more often than not online with the defensive midfielder, and takes up as many defensive duties as they do.

http://vimeo.com/16362156

That, for me, is a typical Arteta performance. Look at the amount of times he picks up the ball in deeper positions, and is behind Heitinga, rather than infront of him. Positionally, his style doesn't change much whether he's playing alongside Heitinga, Neville or Fellaini. He has to take the ball more alongside Heitinga because Johnny, for all his qualities, doesn't always get involved when we have the ball. I think that comes to how much space he has, rather than shying away from the ball. He's a centre back really, more than anything, and whilst he is an excellent passer, he doesn't have the touch, close control and agility of a typical midfielder.

If he played like he did against Stoke every week I'd agree with you, but he doesn't, and Fellaini offers alot more consistency in this area. I don't think the big man is outstanding in possession, his distribution is simple stuff really, but he takes the ball much more than Heitinga. Defensively, I don't think either of them are outstanding, positionally, they are both behind Neville and even Arteta. They both have a tendency to leave big gaps in midfield.

I agree Arteta likes to drop deeper, but I think Fellaini more often than not takes up the more forward areas than Arteta.

End of the day, I rather Arteta be the box-to-box player than Fellaini because I do think because Heitinga sits, Arteta is allowed to pull the strings more further up the park. Its just that linkage from mid-to-forward that's missing.

What I'd rather have is Arteta doing the Fabregas role as he likes to drop deep and get forward with Song or Diaby just in the hole.

I just feel Heitinga and Fellaini are different types of defensive midfielders who work differently for Arteta.

As for the link...it had me crying for someone to move to him and take the ball off Arteta or make a run. I love Cahill but you think he should be the one dropping to him and asking for the ball to make something of it - Van Der Vaart does it. I think Pienaar would/could.

 

[ToxtethBlue]

I agree Arteta likes to drop deeper, but I think Fellaini more often than not takes up the more forward areas than Arteta.

End of the day, I rather Arteta be the box-to-box player than Fellaini because I do think because Heitinga sits, Arteta is allowed to pull the strings more further up the park. Its just that linkage from mid-to-forward that's missing.

What I'd rather have is Arteta doing the Fabregas role as he likes to drop deep and get forward with Song or Diaby just in the hole.

I just feel Heitinga and Fellaini are different types of defensive midfielders who work differently for Arteta.

Fair enough.

 

[Matt Damon]

Compeltely different quote elsewhere -

"I don’t know. We have had no offers, but you hear bits of rumours like everyone else. There has been no official contact from anybody regarding Johnny Heitinga.

"I think his character and type is one who will battle for his place, and I have no reason to think anything other than it (the interest from other clubs) is just speculation.

"I haven’t heard from Johnny or any clubs. He has to get on with it. There is competition for places and he is involved in that. Will I cash in January? I don’t know."

Love the press me.

He wont go in January...and we wont get £10million for him in January either if he did go.

Heitinga, Pienaar and Bilya...that's a bit of a gutting of the squad.

JUST SHOWS THEY'RE A PATHETIC BUNCH OF STIRRING SNIDES!

 

[kenada_blue]

JUST SHOWS THEY'RE A PATHETIC BUNCH OF STIRRING SNIDES!

SNIDE ALERT!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[billycopper]

I think that Heitinga was over-hyped last season. This season his form has been pretty erratic to say the least. It would seem that he views Everton as a stepping stone and the sooner he's playing Champion's League football, the better as far as he's concerned. As much as I was made up when we bought him, I'm not really sure what Moyes had in mind for him. When everyone's fit, where is he going to get in the side?

If we could make a decent profit on him to reinvest in the side, I would be prepared to part company.

 

[ijjysmith]

Don't think we'd get a profit on him. More like near what we paid for him. Which I'd still take.

 

[kenada_blue]

I think that Heitinga was over-hyped last season. This season his form has been pretty erratic to say the least. It would seem that he views Everton as a stepping stone and the sooner he's playing Champion's League football, the better as far as he's concerned. As much as I was made up when we bought him, I'm not really sure what Moyes had in mind for him. When everyone's fit, where is he going to get in the side?

If we could make a decent profit on him to reinvest in the side, I would be prepared to part company.

By the sounds of it, that £20million or whatever we got for Lescott didnt go very far did it?

Heitinga - £6mill
Bilya - £9mill

Both out the door after 2 seasons - Bilya not even playing regularly.

 

[bluebloodinmyveins]

I reckon at least 2 will go in January, possibly even 3. Heitinga being one of them.

 

[ijjysmith]

I reckon at least 2 will go in January, possibly even 3. Heitinga being one of them.

Who else do you reckon? We do need freshening up so wouldn't be a bad thing.

 

[kenada_blue]

I reckon at least 2 will go in January, possibly even 3. Heitinga being one of them.

There's never any business in January. Everyone apart from Pienaar is still under contract so unless a Champions League team come in, or a team in a better climate ie Spain no one will be leaving.

Moyes has said no one is interested in Heitinga. We'd have to give Bilya away. And I've always said...why would anyone pay money for Pienaar when he's free in a few months?

At a push -1 player could leave but a team will have to be desperate for them and willing to spend.

 

[bluebloodinmyveins]

Who else do you reckon? We do need freshening up so wouldn't be a bad thing.

Yak and Bily are the other two i can see going. I hope it's all done quick so we can get some decent replacements in. Knowing us, it will be deadline day stuff again.

 

[Dutch Toffee]

Wouldn't be surprised if Billy, Pienaar and Heitinga will be offloaded. Could raise some much needed cash to freshen the place up. Still think Moyes will make a move for Steven Taylor and Donovan will join up. Also, a replacement for Pienaar (Holtby, Kranjcar, Jarvis or whoever Moyes seems worthy of the job and another striker would be a perfect scenario. Hope Yakubu stays put though.