Byetinga

[RFUS]

If that were the case, he'd probably go to Stoke or a Bolton to get games.

Decent shout to be fair as we do need a back up and replacement for Distin who isnt getting younger. But January isnt the time to be doing all this IMO.

Our last back up defenders in Jan were Senderos and bloke from Spurs who was injured when we got him.

He's also a knob with an attitude problem, so if anyone wants Heitinga to leave cause they think he has one and be replaced by Taylor they are splendidly dumb.

Honestly, I just wouldn't want to lose a CB without someone coming in the other way. I doubt they'd get many games, so I'm not arsed who. But the fact is, Johhny's worth at least £6 million -- probably more -- and that's too much money for a utility player, given our problems elsewhere, and impending problem on the left, when Pienaar sambas to Italy or whatever.

 

[ToxtethBlue]

I personally want to sell him, for no other reason than to strengthen a more needy position. He can't get a game at the moment, and I'm not convinced he'd be able to partner Jags as well as we'd all hoped -- I remember dreaming of Felli and Arteta in the middle together, but so far they've been quite [Poor language removed] as a combo. And honestly, we could net a tidy fee for him I'll bet. A tidy fee we could use to bring in someone to help with the goal drought, because defensively, we're doing okay.




Taylor's good enough to warm the bench, which is exactly what Heitinga will be doing if he stays.

You haven't even seen them play together, and we only have three centre backs, and one of them is 32 and has only recently started to look the part. I don't know if you've noticed the amount of times our possession breaks down because Jagielka and Distin aren't comfortable in possession. Heitinga could offer us alot in this area, he proved that last season.

Fellaini and Arteta haven't been [Poor language removed] as a partnership either, far from it. They still need to adapt to playing alongside eachother, sure, but that's only natural. I think we've dominated every game they've played together, having alot of possession and controlling the game. You don't do that if your midfielders are playing badly.

 

[RFUS]

You haven't even seen them play together, and we only have three centre backs, and one of them is 32 and has only recently started to look the part. I don't know if you've noticed the amount of times our possession breaks down because Jagielka and Distin aren't comfortable in possession. Heitinga could offer us alot in this area, he proved that last season.

Fellaini and Arteta haven't been [Poor language removed] as a partnership either, far from it. They still need to adapt to playing alongside eachother, sure, but that's only natural. I think we've dominated every game they've played together, having alot of possession and controlling the game. You don't do that if your midfielders are playing badly.

Heitinga has played less game time than Distin and Jags this season, and has probably lost the ball more times than those two combined.

 

[Summerskin]

8 games he's played - lost 2.

7 games Fellaini played - lost 3.

Football teams have 11 players in.

 

[kenada_blue]

Football teams have 11 players in.

True...but as a defensive midfield position you play your best players in form based on team results. Aint broke, dont fix it...unless the game calls for it or injuries.

Moyes already cocked up that this season in another position...dropping Yak for Saha for no real reason.

And if Moyes is talking about players and competition...its a bit contradictory if he's benching players on the back of a string of good results for players who come straight back from injury/suspension.

Fellaini IMO needs to work his way back in the team like anyone else, just like Moyes has said...but it wont happen. Its why Distin has kept his place by playing well...but even then if he were gash, he still wouldnt be dropped.

 

[ToxtethBlue]

Heitinga has played less game time than Distin and Jags this season, and has probably lost the ball more times than those two combined.

It's a completely different position, Jagielka and Distin pick up the ball with little to no pressure on them, a midfielder, more than not, is being pressed and harried by opposition players everytime they have the ball. Heitinga's distribution as a centre back is lightyears ahead of both of the players mentioned, that much is obvious.

 

[kenada_blue]

It's a completely different position, Jagielka and Distin pick up the ball with little to no pressure on them, a midfielder, more than not, is being pressed and harried by opposition players everytime they have the ball. Heitinga's distribution as a centre back is lightyears ahead of both of the players mentioned, that much is obvious.

Mentioned this before. Distin and Jags' aimless hoofing to the front line (very apparent against Arsenal) is a downside of their game. Heitinga's distribution is one of his major traits.

 

[ToxtethBlue]

True...but as a defensive midfield position you play your best players in form based on team results. Aint broke, dont fix it...unless the game calls for it or injuries.

Moyes already cocked up that this season in another position...dropping Yak for Saha for no real reason.

And if Moyes is talking about players and competition...its a bit contradictory if he's benching players on the back of a string of good results for players who come straight back from injury/suspension.

Fellaini IMO needs to work his way back in the team like anyone else, just like Moyes has said...but it wont happen. Its why Distin has kept his place by playing well...but even then if he were gash, he still wouldnt be dropped.

I actually disagree, you've got to judge players on there individual performances, and Heitinga has been average at best. He hasn't been breaking up play anywhere near as much as he can, and as an outlet, he hasn't offered enough in possession. That's the only difference I see when Arteta's playing alongside him as opposed to Fellaini, he has to get on the ball more, whereas he can share the duties with Fellaini, who gets involved in possession. That, and Arteta hasn't been expressing himself as much in a creative sense.

Both midfielders should take the ball under pressure, Heitinga isn't exempt from this because he's the so called defensive midfielder. Yakubu's situation is different, because he was playing really well, and the team was benefitting because of it.

 

[Brownie]

Why would we sell him? One of our better players in two positions. Imagine if we hadn't had him whilst Fellaini's been out, what happens if Jagielka or Distin gets injured etc.?

And saying Heitinga has given the ball away more than Jagielka and Distin is the worst point you've ever made Rufus.

 

[kenada_blue]

I actually disagree, you've got to judge players on there individual performances, and Heitinga has been average at best. He hasn't been breaking up play anywhere near as much as he can, and as an outlet, he hasn't offered enough in possession. That's the only difference I see when Arteta's playing alongside him as opposed to Fellaini, he has to get on the ball more, whereas he can share the duties with Fellaini, who gets involved in possession. That, and Arteta hasn't been expressing himself as much in a creative sense.

Both midfielders should take the ball under pressure, Heitinga isn't exempt from this because he's the so called defensive midfielder. Yakubu's situation is different, because he was playing really well, and the team was benefitting because of it.

You could call his performances average or IMO solid. Its been noticable when he's off the field that the team turns to [Poor language removed] because the shape is gone. I agree he's not breaking things up as much as you could want, but he's not passing the buck on those responsibilities and IMO offers more freedom to Arteta to move forward because he holds the teams shape.

Fellaini strangles Arteta somewhat IMO because he's up and down leaving Arteta deeper. It can work, but its an understanding that needs to be developed. If remember there being some gaping holes in the midfield at the start of the season when Fellaini and Arteta started because they're not understanding each other as of yet.

They are 2 different types of DM players.

As for Heitinga...IMO you look at the results and how the team plays before thinking "how do we add to this?". We all know the problems are in the final 3rd and not the midfield as such. So just dropping Heitinga for Fellaini or who ever isnt entirely justified as I cant see how much different in terms of offering protection to the back 4 they would be.

 

[RFUS]

Why would we sell him? One of our better players in two positions. Imagine if we hadn't had him whilst Fellaini's been out, what happens if Jagielka or Distin gets injured etc.?

And saying Heitinga has given the ball away more than Jagielka and Distin is the worst point you've ever made Rufus.

I think the point I was trying to make was lost a bit.

Obviously he's going to be harried more, but my point was that he's made more individual errors. The unforced kind; stray passes and the like. He's look unfocused, whereas Jags and Distin have been razor sharp for the most part.

Is that because Heitinga's recovering from the WC? Maybe. Is it because he's lost interest? Maybe. Honestly I don't know, and I won't claim to, but he's not had a good season either way.

 

[kenada_blue]

I think the point I was trying to make was lost a bit.

Obviously he's going to be harried more, but my point was that he's made more individual errors. The unforced kind; stray passes and the like. He's look unfocused, whereas Jags and Distin have been razor sharp for the most part.

Is that because Heitinga's recovering from the WC? Maybe. Is it because he's lost interest? Maybe. Honestly I don't know, and I won't claim to, but he's not had a good season either way.

I dont think he's been that bad in that regards...only the Wolves game which I thought was a foul against him.

Distin and Jags aimless hoof ball says alot about losing the ball. And I think Arteta and Jags have been on the worst end of being dispelled in midfield and it leading to goals so far this season.

But I agree the WC has had an effect on him and I've said that since the opening games of the season

 

[Brownie]

I think the point I was trying to make was lost a bit.

Obviously he's going to be harried more, but my point was that he's made more individual errors. The unforced kind; stray passes and the like. He's look unfocused, whereas Jags and Distin have been razor sharp for the most part.

Is that because Heitinga's recovering from the WC? Maybe. Is it because he's lost interest? Maybe. Honestly I don't know, and I won't claim to, but he's not had a good season either way.

Fair enough, I'd agree that Jags and Distin have looked sharper. I'd still bet good money that each of them has given the ball away a hell of a lot more than Heitinga.

 

[RFUS]

I dont think he's been that bad in that regards...only the Wolves game which I thought was a foul against him.

Distin and Jags aimless hoof ball says alot about losing the ball. And I think Arteta and Jags have been on the worst end of being dispelled in midfield and it leading to goals so far this season.

But I agree the WC has had an effect on him and I've said that since the opening games of the season

Jag's hoofing is something I bring up a lot myself. Distin does it too, but he often runs with it well, give him credit for that, and when he does hoof it, 20% of the time it will hit an Everton player. That's 30% more than Jag's hoofs do.


And Arteta's been poor, I've got to agree.

 

[RFUS]

Fair enough, I'd agree that Jags and Distin have looked sharper. I'd still bet good money that each of them has given the ball away a hell of a lot more than Heitinga.

Heitinga's definitely given it away more, and that's to be expected in midfield, but it's the nature of how he's given it away. Not so much smart opposition pressure, but lazy passing or daydreaming on the ball.

Although Arteta's probably been the worst culprit of that, which is shocking and unnacceptable.