2018/19 Idrissa Gueye

[carolinablue232]

It was only a couple weeks ago. We got smashed by Man City and Spurs. Never saw the ball.

I mean, we’d have lost either way but without him against Spurs it was like we forgot to play a midfield altogether

 

[CRIMHEAD]

I don't think anyone is saying Gana is crap at all. Maybe if our team was blessed with a wonderful midfield with attacking players who can score goals, then a "water carrier" like him, even one who often passes to the opposition, would be fine. Obviously he can't be sold without a decent replacement.

Please show one shred of objective evidence that he passes the ball to the opposition? I keep seeing people write this, but I see zero evidence he passes it any more often to the opposition than does anyone else on the team. Which is AMAZING, considering he averages more passes than anyone on our team, has about the highest pass % on our team, and rarely gets dispossessed OR has a bad touch relative to his teammates.

According to Whoscored, we are worst (by a mile I'd like to mention) at "Unsuccessful touches" and 2nd worst at "dispossessed". Since Gana makes the most passess and has the ball more than anyone, he must be a big contributor to this, right? If he "often passes to the opposition", he MUST have a LOT of unsuccessful touches if we are the WORST in the league at it, right? WRONG, he's one of the best on our team. At being dispossessed? He MUST give it up a bunch as he has it all the time and gives it away so often - I've heard that one, too. Also WRONG. He's about the best on the team.

This isn't even a preference of style, he doesn't pass it to the opposition, he doesn't turn it over, the guy wins the ball better than anyone in the entire league AND takes care of the ball better than virtually anyone on our team that isn't a CB.

 

[CRIMHEAD]

I mean, we’d have lost either way but without him against Spurs it was like we forgot to play a midfield altogether

I almost think it was worse against Man City. They were literally just passing it wherever they wanted. It was torture. Spurs at least when they went right through Gomes - who was slow - and Davies - who was as positionally clueless as I have ever seen a player, they buried it in the back of the net so it was quick and painless.

Heck, if it wasn't for another board pariah, Sigurdsson for pretty much singlehandedly running all over the place and scoring / creating in the second half, it would've looked even worse.

 

[TheBigIguana]

I almost think it was worse against Man City. They were literally just passing it wherever they wanted. It was torture. Spurs at least when they went right through Gomes - who was slow - and Davies - who was as positionally clueless as I have ever seen a player, they buried it in the back of the net so it was quick and painless.

Heck, if it wasn't for another board pariah, Sigurdsson for pretty much singlehandedly running all over the place and scoring / creating in the second half, it would've looked even worse.

The difference was down to the number of CBs we played. Both teams cut us open but City had 1 extra guy to navigate to score.

 

[Zatara]

Please show one shred of objective evidence that he passes the ball to the opposition? I keep seeing people write this, but I see zero evidence he passes it any more often to the opposition than does anyone else on the team. Which is AMAZING, considering he averages more passes than anyone on our team, has about the highest pass % on our team, and rarely gets dispossessed OR has a bad touch relative to his teammates.

According to Whoscored, we are worst (by a mile I'd like to mention) at "Unsuccessful touches" and 2nd worst at "dispossessed". Since Gana makes the most passess and has the ball more than anyone, he must be a big contributor to this, right? If he "often passes to the opposition", he MUST have a LOT of unsuccessful touches if we are the WORST in the league at it, right? WRONG, he's one of the best on our team. At being dispossessed? He MUST give it up a bunch as he has it all the time and gives it away so often - I've heard that one, too. Also WRONG. He's about the best on the team.

This isn't even a preference of style, he doesn't pass it to the opposition, he doesn't turn it over, the guy wins the ball better than anyone in the entire league AND takes care of the ball better than virtually anyone on our team that isn't a CB.

I'm sorry but you can quite clearly see that he passes in a below average manner every single game...its not an anomaly.

He will hit the rare high quality pass during a game which you take notice of because its uncommon...otherwise its usually short forward passes to Gomes or Sigurdsson to come deep or a sideways/backwards pass.

 

[Jimmy Grimble]

Please show one shred of objective evidence that he passes the ball to the opposition? I keep seeing people write this, but I see zero evidence he passes it any more often to the opposition than does anyone else on the team. Which is AMAZING, considering he averages more passes than anyone on our team, has about the highest pass % on our team, and rarely gets dispossessed OR has a bad touch relative to his teammates.

According to Whoscored, we are worst (by a mile I'd like to mention) at "Unsuccessful touches" and 2nd worst at "dispossessed". Since Gana makes the most passess and has the ball more than anyone, he must be a big contributor to this, right? If he "often passes to the opposition", he MUST have a LOT of unsuccessful touches if we are the WORST in the league at it, right? WRONG, he's one of the best on our team. At being dispossessed? He MUST give it up a bunch as he has it all the time and gives it away so often - I've heard that one, too. Also WRONG. He's about the best on the team.

This isn't even a preference of style, he doesn't pass it to the opposition, he doesn't turn it over, the guy wins the ball better than anyone in the entire league AND takes care of the ball better than virtually anyone on our team that isn't a CB.

There's a few of us who feel this way. For me he's one of the first names on the team sheet. A very valuable player, without whom we are nowhere near as good. I think it's just become trendy to slag him off. People saying he's not good enough for top 6. I think he's one of the very few we have who actually is.

 

[CRIMHEAD]

I'm sorry but you can quite clearly see that he passes in a below average manner every single game...its not an anomaly.

He will hit the rare high quality pass during a game which you take notice of because its uncommon...otherwise its usually short forward passes to Gomes or Sigurdsson to come deep or a sideways/backwards pass.

So that’s a no, Zat?

 

[Jimmy Grimble]

I'm sorry but you can quite clearly see that he passes in a below average manner every single game...its not an anomaly.

He will hit the rare high quality pass during a game which you take notice of because its uncommon...otherwise its usually short forward passes to Gomes or Sigurdsson to come deep or a sideways/backwards pass.

Short passes from one of the most effective ball winners in the league to the more creative players.... I fail to see the problem.

 

[Zatara]

There's a few of us who feel this way. For me he's one of the first names on the team sheet. A very valuable player, without whom we are nowhere near as good. I think it's just become trendy to [Poor language removed] him off. People saying he's not good enough for top 6. I think he's one of the very few we have who actually is.

Whose slagging him off? Dont think anyone has...

So that’s a no, Zat?

Lets see how good his passing is against southampton...theyre rubbish so hopefully he does well

Short passes from one of the most effective ball winners in the league to the more creative players.... I fail to see the problem.

The problem arises that Marco Silvas favoured 433 system cant be implemented with the current midfielders.

Youve got a ball winner who can only make short passes so the opposition just need to press him and it causes all kinds of problems which a more technical player wouldnt suffer.

If he is passing forwards its not clever to make it over long distance so Gomes has to come short to receive it which means hes now 10-15 yards further from where he wants to be. Naturally we also see Sigurdsson come back also so Richarlison is isolated.

In a 433 you really ideally need a superstar DM sat behind 2 box to box players...we have 1/2 a superstar DM.

 

[NorthernBlue]

Yeah but many of his short passes end up on people heads or two yards behind them putting other players under pressure resulting us concedeing possession. Statiscally it’s a completed pass. But it’s a crap pass.

 

[TheBigIguana]

I'm sorry but you can quite clearly see that he passes in a below average manner every single game...its not an anomaly.

He will hit the rare high quality pass during a game which you take notice of because its uncommon...otherwise its usually short forward passes to Gomes or Sigurdsson to come deep or a sideways/backwards pass.

The thing is he shouldn't be required to also be a top notch passer. I know he doesn't really move the ball forward but he's also good enough at keeping it with sideways passes to get by. His partner, originally Schneiderlin when he cared and then Gomes until he strangely lost his form, should be someone who can carry the load of moving the ball forward considering Gana takes care of literally everything else. The problem is not Gana not passing well it's that the team isn't built well enough to make up for it. As noted in this thread we currently have no midfield to speak of when not in possession on the occasions that Gana doesn't play. Fixing that will be harder than figuring out how to deal with his somewhat lower passing ability.

If you want an example of this kind of system working you don't have to look much farther than the current Champions of Europe who have a player in Casemiro that is really in the team to cover for Kroos, Modric and Marcelo. Obviously the rest of our team doesn't reach that standard but the point is in a well coordinated team Gana could be extremely valuable. Kante during the Conte era is another example of that and honestly his lower standard this season is a good example of how to waste that ability.

 

[Zatara]

The thing is he shouldn't be required to also be a top notch passer. I know he doesn't really move the ball forward but he's also good enough at keeping it with sideways passes to get by. His partner, originally Schneiderlin when he cared and then Gomes until he strangely lost his form, should be someone who can carry the load of moving the ball forward considering Gana takes care of literally everything else. The problem is not Gana not passing well it's that the team isn't built well enough to make up for it. As noted in this thread we currently have no midfield to speak of when not in possession on the occasions that Gana doesn't play. Fixing that will be harder than figuring out how to deal with his somewhat lower passing ability.

If you want an example of this kind of system working you don't have to look much farther than the current Champions of Europe who have a player in Casemiro that is really in the team to cover for Kroos, Modric and Marcelo. Obviously the rest of our team doesn't reach that standard but the point is in a well coordinated team Gana could be extremely valuable. Kante during the Conte era is another example of that and honestly his lower standard this season is a good example of how to waste that ability.

If Gana was 25 or younger then it would be fair to say we should keep him as 1st choice DM and then try to work on his game. That way we can compensate and focus on 2 central midfielders ahead of him to compliment his game and cover for his weaknesses.

However, he's going to be 30 in September and if we do have a long term strategy then he should be phased out for a younger better player over the next 2-3 seasons OR if we dont have the funds required to do this we should sell him now and put the money together for the long term player.

 

[Paulie]

Seeing lines like "he shouldn't be required to be a top notch passer". Of course he should be a top notch passer he is playing in the arguably best and most demanding league on the world ffs.

I love Gana but I think with a more disciplined CM, similar to Barry, with more quality on the ball. It'll compensate on his high energy game of hunting the ball down. I think we'll have a better shape in the middle with a player in the style of Barry.

 

[SteStocksDJ]

Gana should be replaced with a younger version. But not in January. I’m happy if he can’t play more than a 5-10 yard pass. Because I don’t expect him to be playing long balls.

In my eyes his job is to win the ball and play an accurate first pass - to Gomes or sigurdsson preferably - and then they can find the runners.

 

[Papa Shango]

I'm sorry but you can quite clearly see that he passes in a below average manner every single game...its not an anomaly.

He will hit the rare high quality pass during a game which you take notice of because its uncommon...otherwise its usually short forward passes to Gomes or Sigurdsson to come deep or a sideways/backwards pass.

So pretty much all the different types of passes then? Like any other player?