2018/19 Michael Keane

[Lanolin]

Jagielka at 36 is not better than Keane, no.

Possibly not - although I thought he was better than him at 35 so I wouldn't completely rule it out - but you said 'for years', and he hasn't been 36 for years as far as i'm aware.

 

[MikeH72]

Possibly not - although I thought he was better than him at 35 so I wouldn't completely rule it out - but you said 'for years', and he hasn't been 36 for years as far as i'm aware.

I said Jagielka’s been doing things like charging out of position leaving massive gaps behind him for years, because he has.

 

[Eggs]

..I feel similar to Keane as I do to Tosun, both are ok but both need upgrading. Just as Tosun will not give Premier League defenders a sleepless night, Premier League forwards will relish playing against Keane. Good strikers will run past him with ease in one-on-one situations, good strikers will turn him with their backs to goal.

 

[Lanolin]

I said Jagielka’s been doing things like charging out of position leaving massive gaps behind him for years, because he has.

Yeah and i'm not disagreeing. The point was that you then said 'yet gets called as our best centre back' as if doing this meant he couldn't be. I'm just saying that while they may both make the same errors, most people would agree that Jagielka's general performances were better than Keane's and so the point is moot. I don't expect players to be perfect, but if they do enough good things to make up for the bad, I'll be fairly content. Personally I don't think Keane did anything particularly great on Saturday, he was just pretty decent overall, so it seems fair enough to point out that even on one of his better days he still made a few errors that could well have cost us. We all know that if they had cost us loads of the people who are praising him would be saying he'd been awful, despite his performance being exactly the same. I'm just trying to be consistent by judging his performance on what he actually did, rather than what the result of the game was.

 

[MikeH72]

Yeah and i'm not disagreeing. The point was that you then said 'yet gets called as our best centre back' as if doing this meant he couldn't be. I'm just saying that while they may both make the same errors, most people would agree that Jagielka's general performances were better than Keane's and so the point is moot. I don't expect players to be perfect, but if they do enough good things to make up for the bad, I'll be fairly content. Personally I don't think Keane did anything particularly great on Saturday, he was just pretty decent overall, so it seems fair enough to point out that even on one of his better days he still made a few errors that could well have cost us. We all know that if they had cost us loads of the people who are praising him would be saying he'd been awful, despite his performance being exactly the same. I'm just trying to be consistent by judging his performance on what he actually did, rather than what the result of the game was.

But when Jagielka played well people couldn't wait to acknowledge it and wheel out the "still our best CB", but when Keane plays well all people want to do is point out the one half-error he made because they can't bring themselves to acknowledge it. When Jagielka made errors that cost us, of which he made many last season, bar a few posters it was pretty much brushed under the carpet and ignored. I don't think you can say there isn't a very very large degree of pre-conceived bias involved when assessing individual player's performances on here.

 

[Lanolin]

But when Jagielka played well people couldn't wait to acknowledge it and wheel out the "still our best CB", but when Keane plays well all people want to do is point out the one half-error he made because they can't bring themselves to acknowledge it. When Jagielka made errors that cost us, of which he made many last season, bar a few posters it was pretty much brushed under the carpet and ignored. I don't think you can say there isn't a very very large degree of pre-conceived bias involved when assessing individual player's performances on here.

No there definitely is, we're all guilty of it I think. For me personally I try not to do that, and often comment positively on player threads if I think I don't usually praise them and they played well, but I have no doubt that I have some biases. If I look at a player like Keane or Sigurdsson, I maybe think they have to do a bit more to impress me because they really underwhelmed me last year, so I won't be going overboard with praise just because one of them does OK for a couple of weeks. On the other hand, there are players who have a bit more credit in the bank with me, so I won't necessarily call them out for one or two poor performances if I think they're usually good. I thought Jagielka was our best centre half last year but I certainly didn't think he was good. It was a case of thinking he was the 'least worst' rather than that he excelled.

 

[peteblue]

Jagielka’s been doing this for years yet gets called our best centre back on here all the time. It’s almost like people notice what they want to.

It was just an observation....

 

[Saint Domingo]

The very fact we can even compare a 30 mill centreback to a 36 year old Jagielka is ridiculous. We should be talking about whether Keane is better than Jags was 10 years ago in his prime not Jagielka post cruciate ligament injury in the twilight of his career.

 

[Zatara]

We need to stop selling our best players

We couldnt replace him for 25m.

Hes good enough for our current place.

Surely if his form continues then we keep him ?

If they are over 21 they are all for sale in Zatland

Yeah but for 30 million shouldn’t he be near Digne’s quality. That’s kind of my point, it’s like he’s being praised now for not being completely awful (even though he’s still making critical errors each game). He’s improved yes, he’s looking more confident and stronger in the air and in the tackle, but has he suddenly become good on the ball? Has he suddenly found a yard of pace? No. I’m not saying let’s not persevere with him, or that partnerships don’t need time etc. But we paid 30 million for him and Chelsea’s 5th choice centreback we have on loan is a lot better.

..I feel similar to Keane as I do to Tosun, both are ok but both need upgrading. Just as Tosun will not give Premier League defenders a sleepless night, Premier League forwards will relish playing against Keane. Good strikers will run past him with ease in one-on-one situations, good strikers will turn him with their backs to goal.

We havent seen Mina yet, however as a player who was a 1st choice target for that position I think we can be 'hopeful' that he will have the quality to be 1st choice under Silva.

The remaining CBs (jags contract is up and Zoumas loan ends) for next season would be Holgate and Keane.

If we are looking for a partner for Mina then at this time I think we need to sign someone and Keane/Holgate would be backup.

I'd be fine with that but think that £25mil from selling Keane + some additional funds could land us a really top partner for Mina. Meanwhile, bring in a loan signing to compete in a similar fashion to Zouma.

Id like to see us solidify the defence (including DM) as it is paramount for a counter attacking side to not be leaky...

Keane simply wont be good enough to nullify top forwards...only slow obstacles like mitrovic.

A few games where hes done better than last season doesnt make him good enough.

 

[Nyhus]

Yeah but for 30 million shouldn’t he be near Digne’s quality. That’s kind of my point, it’s like he’s being praised now for not being completely awful (even though he’s still making critical errors each game). He’s improved yes, he’s looking more confident and stronger in the air and in the tackle, but has he suddenly become good on the ball? Has he suddenly found a yard of pace? No. I’m not saying let’s not persevere with him, or that partnerships don’t need time etc. But we paid 30 million for him and Chelsea’s 5th choice centreback we have on loan is a lot better.

If we were to buy Zouma he would cost a lot more than Keane did, and tbf, I dont know why Barca sold us Digne for the price they did, could probably have gotten more for him.
Im willing to see how Keane progress now, he’s already taken bog steps towards being a player we can trust in defence, and hopefully he’ll improve more.

 

[davids]

I actually think our defensive issues stem from midfield. There were a couple of moments on saturday, the 1v1 being the prime example, where they cut through us. That started with Davies and gueye leaving acres of space for them to find the through ball. We should be narrowing our positions to force the opposition out wide were we have more than enough pace to cope.

We should defend as a team and we are a fair bit away as it stands,better teams will make us pay.

 

[roydo]

I dont know why Barca sold us Digne for the price they did, could probably have gotten more for him.

They have cash issues, and he wasnt a key player for them. Buyers market, for a change.

 

[Simon Buttle]

I actually think our defensive issues stem from midfield. There were a couple of moments on saturday, the 1v1 being the prime example, where they cut through us. That started with Davies and gueye leaving acres of space for them to find the through ball. We should be narrowing our positions to force the opposition out wide were we have more than enough pace to cope.

Oh they do, been mentioned on here before but tbh we need a new midfield. All the guys we have got at the moment are half decent players as individuals but they don't compliment each other in anyway and therefore struggle to play together most of the time. There is still Gomes to come into the team but despite being a good player at Valencia im not 100% sure he will make a huge difference tbh.

 

[Nyhus]

They have cash issues, and he wasnt a key player for them. Buyers market, for a change.

That explains it!

 

[Brisan123]

They have cash issues, and he wasnt a key player for them. Buyers market, for a change.

Plus I think Brands told them he’d be back for Mina and possibly Gomes