Does Moyes' reign look better with hindsight given the dismal performances of his successors?
- Thread starter RhylBlue
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The top clubs during his time was United, Liverpool, Arsenal or Chelsea and he never in all his time at Everton, won at any of them (in the league - even the cups I think only Chelsea and that was pens)
Moyes did more damage to this football club than most will ever appreciate with egotistical a"knife to a gunfight" narrative which suited only himself and instilled a losers, second rate mentality.
Martinez tried to change it - talking up champions league immediately, replacing pictures of Leon Osman an Tony Hibbert from the walls of Finch Farm an replacing them with players who actually won stuff at Everton - he understood the importance of mentality but just wasn't good enough.
Part true - but he was lucky to survive the season he finished 17th with our lowest ever premier league points total.
Talking up champions league? Wtf! That's all he did mate, talk out of his hoop. Remember him being positive after conceeding 9 at Spurs. Remember how del was the most talented young player in work football? Or how mgeady and literally everything else in the world was phenomenal ? Remeber him saying he's proud of the team after losing a two goal tead with ten mins left?
toffee matt
Player Valuation: £60m
Would have been remembered more fondly if he left in 2009 /2010.
Our league performances between 2006 and 2009 were pretty impressive given the context. The Big 4 were so far ahead of the rest during this period,finishing ahead of a Big Spending Villa and Spurs was a good achievement.
Our league performances between 2006 and 2009 were pretty impressive given the context. The Big 4 were so far ahead of the rest during this period,finishing ahead of a Big Spending Villa and Spurs was a good achievement.
joey_macmo
Player Valuation: £35m
He won away at sides that finished in the top 4 5/6 times off the top of my head, Martinez's best away win was against 7th place. Talking was Roberto's best asset but on the pitch he rarely lived up to it, Moyes "big game" to finish 4th was United at home, Martinez's was palace at home.
What on earth are you on about talking about pictures on a wall? Finch farm has pictures of all academy graduates & also pictures of evertons trophy winning sides, who's arsed.
Thetigerblue
Player Valuation: £5m
We weren't poor. We were rancid.
This just after one of the worst Derby performances ever perpetrated by an Everton side. And that's a really high bar.
Not saying he was the messiah mate, just that even Martinez appreciated how the mentality around the club was pitiful from the previous 10+ years of being told to know our place.
It's that mentality, a mentality Moyes instilled of keeping the ball in the corner flag against 10 men at Anfield that has really damaged the club and for me, largely defined Moyes' legacy.
He's an articulate Sam Allardyce in that he'll downplay the club he's at to his own advantage - he even tried it at Man Utd when he'd say a draw at Newcastle was a good result!
toffee matt
Player Valuation: £60m
Martinez's record away to the big sides is as dismal as Moyes's and is one of the biggest myths surrounding him BTW.
We took 3 points away from home against sides that went on to finish in the top 4 in 3 years.
We took 3 points away from home against sides that went on to finish in the top 4 in 3 years.
Think saying he done more damage to this club that most will appreciate is wrong . He took over when we were in serious trouble, worked through a period where we could have gone bankrupt and if we went down I do t think we would have come back up, he not only stayed up but had us in Europe regularly and left us with a decent squad of players that got 5th the season after he left. Not like bobby and koeman that have damaged the club for years
One was here for 11 years.
One 3.
One hid from Everton's history an expectation.
One embraced it.
One considered Everton lucky to have him.
One considered themselves privileged to be Everton manager.
Martinez had a slightly better record in terms of points per game but the crux of it is, both weren't good enough.
Papa Shango
Player Valuation: £70m
He said exactly that on match of the day or Sky or whatever he was on when he was a pundit for one of our games.
Kev The Rat
Player Valuation: £70m
No, it might actually look worse.
He was operating under far lower expectations and could therefore approach the situation with a very negative mindset and be beaten routinely by the top 6 away from home. Essentially, he was able to get away with a slightly better style of play than Allardyce for 11 years. And the results were similar.
In addition his record post-Everton is very poor indeed, which does him no favours when looking back.
He was operating under far lower expectations and could therefore approach the situation with a very negative mindset and be beaten routinely by the top 6 away from home. Essentially, he was able to get away with a slightly better style of play than Allardyce for 11 years. And the results were similar.
In addition his record post-Everton is very poor indeed, which does him no favours when looking back.
Moyes 5th
Moyes 8th
Moyes 7th
Moyes 7th
Moyes 6th
Martinez 5th
Martinez 11th
Martinez 11th
Koeman 7th
Allardyce 8th
Take me back to those good old days of Moysie, to glorious Goodison Park.
Moyes 8th
Moyes 7th
Moyes 7th
Moyes 6th
Martinez 5th
Martinez 11th
Martinez 11th
Koeman 7th
Allardyce 8th
Take me back to those good old days of Moysie, to glorious Goodison Park.
Ihaters
Player Valuation: £35m
True, he did have a year when he didn't exceed expectations, but just matched them, but unlike when he left us, that was the expectations back then... Avoiding relegation...
A bit like when we bought Sam in recently to try to counter where we have declined so rapidly back to since Moyes left.
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