PL place target for the rest of the season

[BlueToff]

So to be clear, I don't necessarily disagree with you. Unsworth doesn't have the track record to merit the position. Too risky.

And yes, the delay put us in a worse and worse bargaining position. If that's the point, that the job got so bad that only Sam would take it, okay, I get it. But man, 6M? You'd think we could've pulled in someone better.

I personally think the BETTER argument as to why Sam is that HOPEFULLY Moshiri and co really want to shake things up in a Ralf Rangnick kind of way. That's why they made overtures to Fonseca. That's why they spoke to Ralf. You can't really ask Fonseca or even Marco Silva to come in and have a successful short turnaround with this personnel as they are so poorly adaptable to modern football. Seriously, imagine Ralf Rangnick coming in and seeing the number of players old than 24 on this team? He's literally sell Jags, Stek, Baines, Williams, Mirallas, Lennon, Martina, Morgan, Robles, McCarthy and maybe even Coleman, Gana, Bolaisse, Mori, Siggy and others in the summer. Rooney probably is going nowhere. He'd also have to then spend a bazillion $$$ on two starting CBs, a CF, central middy or two, and probably a couple wingers just in January alone.

That being said, my fear is that Sam and Walsh buy the wrong type of players in January so that whoever comes in during the summer (I hope) and overhauls the team can make use of them. So it's fine to get a target guy, even Hoffenheim uses a target guy, but they have to be able to play a certain way and still run.

That's exactly my point mate.

We went from needing a decent manager to get the best out of this squad to suddenly needing a manager to simply ensure we don't get dragged into a real dogfight.

Now, it's not always about money. Not in this circumstance.

My example is this:

Dyche, who has a £3m release clause, I think would have jumped at the chance to join us 6 weeks ago. But, had we gone for him last week, or after the Saints game, then I think he'd have actually gone 'you know what, I'll hold off until the summer.' It's not worth the risk to his growing reputation to take on a squad that may not react to him given how bad they've been. Same goes for someone like Tuchel, or Rangnick - who has now signed his new contract and is perfectly happy in his DoF role at Leipzig.

We left it too late and too long. It should have been done before or in the two weeks' following Koeman's departure. Unsy's last game should have been Watford.

Now, the advantage to Sam is, in theory, he should get us out of this mess. That should hopefully allow us to salvage a half-decent finish from this season and heck, maybe more. And, Sam may well be happy to call it quits next summer and take a pay-off - it's probably his thinking. But, if he manages to push us on this season, then we may even all think he deserves longer, who knows. That's the position we let ourselves get into and that's where the main mistakes have been made, imo.

 

[TraffordBlue]

I'm not ignoring anything, and I'm not getting carried away by anything. I'm getting a bit fed up of this to be honest, any hint of positivity and people have to jump on you to remind you that we're awful.

I know we are not a great side, I've been saying it for ages, long before many of the people on here were, and in fact I was getting called a bedwetter for most of the summer because I kept pointing out that we had some major issues in the side which needed addressing. Suddenly, the same people who kept calling me a bedwetter are telling me we're horrific and are going down. Meanwhile, my stance hasn't changed, we're a side which could finish 7th/8th, but as you rightly say our away form has remained very poor, so we may struggle to do that and so 9th might be more like it.

The post you've replied to was in response to someone saying our attack is awful. I think it's pretty pertinent to point out that it's actually better than most of our competitors don't you? Somebody yesterday was adamantly telling me that Palace have a better attack than us - they were really quite insistent on it - and yet they've scored less than half as many goals. Now I've got somebody telling me our form isn't that of a midtable side, when we're 13th in the table and 9th in the form table. Weird that isn't it? Almost as if people aren't actually dealing in facts, just doing a load of woe is me hand wringing about how we're doomed without actually taking any notice of what's in front of them.

I'm not one of the negative supporters so if you're aiming that at me then you've got me wrong. However, it would be naive to ignore the absolute state we've been in and still are in at this moment in time. Things hadn't improved under Unsworth and some on here are rewriting the reality of what happened under him and the fact we've risen a few places thanks to one win to suit their agenda. FWIW I backed Unsworth and thought he'd do a far better job than he did. In truth, he was as bad as Koeman for awful team selections, not changing things when needed, playing an unbalanced line up with numerous players out of position and selecting a few who didn't deserve a place in the team. He also dropped one of our best players in Vlasic and didn't even give Lookman as many minutes as he should have.

I think you and @davek are in for a shock over the next month about the seriousness of our situation and why Allardyce was a sensible appointment given the circumstances. If we get through it OK it will be down to Sam Allardyce and not David Unsworth too as he'll be the manager. In the next month we have the Anfield Derby, Chelsea at home and 3 away games. How many points do you think we will get in them? It wouldn't surprise me if we didn't win any of them. So we have to beat Huddersfield and Swansea and hope for draws in the away games.

Regarding Unsworth's stint, how can anyone possibly claim this is impressive?

P8: W2, D1, L5, GS12, GA20, GD-8

That's a terrible record. He also had a favourable fixture list against some average-poor sides in that time too (Leicester, Palace, Atalanta, Southampton and West Ham) which is why after the win last night we're up to 13th. After the away games and Anfield Derby under him we'd be in turmoil again, and still could be under Allardyce.

 

[Agent Blue]

Who fits into that category? Mirrallas? Scheniderlin? Who else?

Williams, Jagielka possibly Baines

 

[Osamabindiesel]

9 points is nothing this early in the season, so if we find some form we can easily surpass Burnley and reclaim our spot. We have to start winning though, and that starts with sorting out the defense and building an attack that is consistent and clinical.

 

[toffeejack]

7th, we should aim to overhaul burnley, for example. Left ourselves too much to do to overtake any of the top 6, which would have been possible had we got an effing striker in!

 

[Timak]

Williams, Jagielka possibly Baines

I just think they've got old. There are very few players of their age on top teams in those positions. Been obvious for a while they've been in decline.

 

[Lanolin]

I'm not one of the negative supporters so if you're aiming that at me then you've got me wrong. However, it would be naive to ignore the absolute state we've been in and still are in at this moment in time. Things hadn't improved under Unsworth and some on here are rewriting the reality of what happened under him and the fact we've risen a few places thanks to one win to suit their agenda. FWIW I backed Unsworth and thought he'd do a far better job than he did. In truth, he was as bad as Koeman for awful team selections, not changing things when needed, playing an unbalanced line up with numerous players out of position and selecting a few who didn't deserve a place in the team. He also dropped one of our best players in Vlasic and didn't even give Lookman as many minutes as he should have.

I think you and @davek are in for a shock over the next month about the seriousness of our situation and why Allardyce was a sensible appointment given the circumstances. If we get through it OK it will be down to Sam Allardyce and not David Unsworth too as he'll be the manager. In the next month we have the Anfield Derby, Chelsea at home and 3 away games. How many points do you think we will get in them? It wouldn't surprise me if we didn't win any of them. So we have to beat Huddersfield and Swansea and hope for draws in the away games.

Regarding Unsworth's stint, how can anyone possibly claim this is impressive?

P8: W2, D1, L5, GS12, GA20, GD-8

That's a terrible record. He also had a favourable fixture list against some average-poor sides in that time too (Leicester, Palace, Atalanta, Southampton and West Ham) which is why after the win last night we're up to 13th. After the away games and Anfield Derby under him we'd be in turmoil again, and still could be under Allardyce.

I've never said Unsworth was impressive, very very much the opposite actually, I've been very critical of him. And that's my point in a nutshell really, that even when managed by someone who was clearly out of his depth we've managed to keep picking up points. With a manager who knows what they're doing I see no reason why we can't do even better, maybe even win an away game. Heady days!

 

[APN_EFC]

I really think we need to aim for 7th or 8th still. Last season, and a few before I think (without knowing the exact points) there was a big gap between 5th and 6th and 7th and 8th, and, for instance, 8th place is not that far above 40 points so I think we can totally aim for that particularly as the typical expected 8th - 9th - 10th places are teams like Stoke, Newcastle, Bournemouth, Southampton and none of them are doing that well.

 

[APN_EFC]

Last year, Southampton only got 46 points in 8th place. Surely we can get to 50 points this year, and that should be enough for 9th or 10th at least, and then maybe another 5 points might take us to 7th

You never know, if Man City win the double, one of our teams with the CL and Arsenal win Europa, then doesn't that mean 7th place gets Europe again?

We live in hope. but this is like realistic hope

 

[Agent Blue]

I just think they've got old. There are very few players of their age on top teams in those positions. Been obvious for a while they've been in decline.

You're right mate. I just remember people like Dave Watson, Davy Weir and Distin all put a shift in despite their age.

 

[Brisan123]

7th minimum
I said at the start of the season that Spurs would struggle with Wembley , CL and a Small squad and so far I’ve been proven right
The Vermin ( who the piss drinker is a fully paid up member of ) will struggle in Jan Feb as their high tempo pressing game wads to fatigue and injuries.
Arsenal are Arsenal you never know what you’ll get but my hunch is they will implode over 4/5 games at some point.
City Chelsea and Manure will get top 3 with City winning by at least 10 points.
I expect spurs to limp to 4th because the vermin and Arsenal are not consistent enough to catch them
With Coleman Bolassie and hopefully Barkley back till the end of the season that’s 3 first teamers back
FSA will add at least 3 first teamers , hopefully a CF a CB and a LB.
The more players he signs the more money he makes.
That should be 6 of the first 11
Add Pickford Keane Gana Rooney /Davies
and Siggy and that’s a much better 11 than anybody outside the top six
Add Lookman , Vlasic , Kenny , Holgate Morgan DCL Naisse Lennon Jags Williams and that’s 20+ players that should comfortably get us top 7
Then we sack Allardyce and his staff and get a manager befitting our club
I have a feeling that’s FSA’s severance package was part of the hold up in him signing up

 

[davek]

I

Regarding Unsworth's stint, how can anyone possibly claim this is impressive?

P8: W2, D1, L5, GS12, GA20, GD-8

That's a terrible record. He also had a favourable fixture list against some average-poor sides in that time too (Leicester, Palace, Atalanta, Southampton and West Ham) which is why after the win last night we're up to 13th. After the away games and Anfield Derby under him we'd be in turmoil again, and still could be under Allardyce.

Who said "impressive"?

He had 5 PL games, and they were the only ones that anyone with any sense cared a flying one about:

Played 5: W2 L2 D1. It got us a very welcome 7 points...about 5 more than I;d have expected had Dutch Disaster remained in post.

Unsworth had to contend with 2 games per week, players who knew he'd be gone soon as first team manager because it was always known a new man was being sought, he was using the squad bequeathed to him by another (failing) manager who had no loyalty toward him.

He got us 5 places above where we were.

Denigrate his period in the dugout if you want, I doubt too many others will be of your opinion that it was "terrible".

 

[Brisan123]

I have zero faith that we'll win it

Hopefully I live to be vaulted on that

I agree
With City practically nailed on to win the league and I reckon they will be 12/14 points clear come Jan 1st then the rest of the Sky 6 will treat the FA cup seriously because their managers ( esp Poch and Wenger) will want a trophy at seasons end

 

[orly]

Who said "impressive"?

He had 5 PL games, and they were the only ones that anyone with any sense cared a flying one about:

Played 5: W2 L2 D1. It got us a very welcome 7 points...about 5 more than I;d have expected had Dutch Disaster remained in post.

Unsworth had to contend with 2 games per week, players who knew he'd be gone soon as first team manager because it was always known a new man was being sought, he was using the squad bequeathed to him by another (failing) manager who had no loyalty toward him.

He got us 5 places above where we were.

Denigrate his period in the dugout if you want, I doubt too many others will be of your opinion that it was "terrible".

Those of us that stuck with Unsy (great nickname by the way) are grateful to him for his service

 

[davek]

Those of us that stuck with Unsy (great nickname by the way) are grateful to him for his service

Did a reasonable job.

That reasonable job, btw, entailed us picking up almost half of the PL points on offer to him with one arm tied behind his back.

I expect the new manager to get at least 35 points in the remainder of the season, but more like 40 if he's anything like adequate.