“Fans” that won’t support us if we get Allardyce

[Eggsyblueskin]

Relegation would ruin us. Bramley Moore won’t happen without premiership status/money.

This fear of relegation is ridiculous. I think it's because our accumulated top flight seasons is the only thing we have left to shout about, sadly though it means little to anyone else. We have been relegated twice before albeit not since the 50s.
Clubs get relegated all the time and many return, sometimes as in Burnleys case ,stronger. It is the strength and determination and organisation of the club that decides whether a relegation is a calamity or a hiccup.
If FatScum saves us from relegation,what then. He merely returns us to the mid table obscurity we have enjoyed for the best part of 30 years, with occasional best of the rest seasons and dangerous dalliances with relegation. Because make no mistake, any club that habitually occupies mid table positions is only ever one poor run/ loss of form away from relegation, and the law of averages and observation tells that one day ,whether it's this season or not, it will be our turn.
Our surest way of avoiding relegation is to establish ourselves at the top end of the table fighting for titles again.
That's why I want our club to make a bold appointment in hope not a cowardly one based on fear. Let us resolve to do our best and if we fail and drop be safe in the knowledge that we have the determination and resolve to come straight back up and go again.
Because make no mistake if this board is incapable of such boldness then I very much doubt they will be capable of building Bramley Dock and even if they do it will make little difference to the chance of competing for titles.
We're a football club not a developer.
Bravery wins the day, cowardice runs away.

 

[JobForTheMoyes]

Very wise words, however he has practice in getting out of this situation and I'd rather have someone who knows what it takes to do that over someone doing it for the first time.

I know Moysie's star had faded by then but Allardyce was able to keep a Sunderland side up that Moyes couldn't for instance.

True to an extent - however they lost their best midfielders (Kirchoff and M'Vila) and their defence (Kone turned to crap when Kaboul went to Watford). I think the fact Sunderland are near the bottom of the Championship and have just appointed a new manager after firing Moyes suggests there are very deep-rooted problems at SAFC.

 

[JobForTheMoyes]

I think pretty much any good manager will keep the team up. Problem with Sam is he brings in players procured by his dodgy mates on long-term deals and tends to leave clubs in a bit of a mess.

Moyes or Dyche would have been better options. Heck, I think Pulis would have been better as he is not as demonstrably corrupt

 

[Shipped]

At the end of the day, if you stop going the match because it has all gone belly up then you're not a proper Blue. You're a fair weather supporter.

If you're comfortable with that then sound, just don't pretend otherwise.

It's more than that though, things always go belly up for us, it's our default position.
This is like waking up to find the person you've been married to for [insert years as supporter] isn't the person you thought they were.

 

[Walken]

it's civil war then, could be bad for the club, but great for the forum, lines are drawn pick your side super bloos

 

[mike91efc]

This fear of relegation is ridiculous. I think it's because our accumulated top flight seasons is the only thing we have left to shout about, sadly though it means little to anyone else. We have been relegated twice before albeit not since the 50s.
Clubs get relegated all the time and many return, sometimes as in Burnleys case ,stronger. It is the strength and determination and organisation of the club that decides whether a relegation is a calamity or a hiccup.
If FatScum saves us from relegation,what then. He merely returns us to the mid table obscurity we have enjoyed for the best part of 30 years, with occasional best of the rest seasons and dangerous dalliances with relegation. Because make no mistake, any club that habitually occupies mid table positions is only ever one poor run/ loss of form away from relegation, and the law of averages and observation tells that one day ,whether it's this season or not, it will be our turn.
Our surest way of avoiding relegation is to establish ourselves at the top end of the table fighting for titles again.
That's why I want our club to make a bold appointment in hope not a cowardly one based on fear. Let us resolve to do our best and if we fail and drop be safe in the knowledge that we have the determination and resolve to come straight back up and go again.
Because make no mistake if this board is incapable of such boldness then I very much doubt they will be capable of building Bramley Dock and even if they do it will make little difference to the chance of competing for titles.
We're a football club not a developer.
Bravery wins the day, cowardice runs away.

Good post in mate. I agree with a lot of it. But im going to take Man City as an example before the Sheik takeover. They had Sven Goran Erikson and Mark Huges as manager. It was only the takeover from the sheik from getting a new stadium from there Council, that really changed the scenery there. Not saying we are in exactly the same position as they were. But that just shows staying up with averageish managers like hughes, moving stadiums and taking a safe approach to stay up. Will eventually pay off.

Back to Everton. I dont believe Moshiri is as rich as we think (or willing to spend silly silly money) But his links in buisness will bring us more and more money (usmanov etc)

Aim before we get the stadium is to stay in the league at all costs. If its Allardyce this year. Fine. After he leaves Dyche. So be it. It maybe be then only the next appointment after this current vacany or the one after where we can start building and moving up and once we have moved grounds.

Sorry to say Martinez and Koeman have both taken us backwards, but we are still in the prem. But maybe its a few steps back to take one forward. It does happen in football and day to day life and buisness sometimes.

Keep the faith. COYB!

 

[Khalekan]

This fear of relegation is ridiculous. I think it's because our accumulated top flight seasons is the only thing we have left to shout about, sadly though it means little to anyone else. We have been relegated twice before albeit not since the 50s.
Clubs get relegated all the time and many return, sometimes as in Burnleys case ,stronger. It is the strength and determination and organisation of the club that decides whether a relegation is a calamity or a hiccup.
If FatScum saves us from relegation,what then. He merely returns us to the mid table obscurity we have enjoyed for the best part of 30 years, with occasional best of the rest seasons and dangerous dalliances with relegation. Because make no mistake, any club that habitually occupies mid table positions is only ever one poor run/ loss of form away from relegation, and the law of averages and observation tells that one day ,whether it's this season or not, it will be our turn.
Our surest way of avoiding relegation is to establish ourselves at the top end of the table fighting for titles again.
That's why I want our club to make a bold appointment in hope not a cowardly one based on fear. Let us resolve to do our best and if we fail and drop be safe in the knowledge that we have the determination and resolve to come straight back up and go again.
Because make no mistake if this board is incapable of such boldness then I very much doubt they will be capable of building Bramley Dock and even if they do it will make little difference to the chance of competing for titles.
We're a football club not a developer.
Bravery wins the day, cowardice runs away.

Eggy.....if I am not mistaken Burnley spent about nearly forty odd years in the lower leagues after being relegated in the 70s, after having been a top flight club throughout my early life up to then, even being crowned Champions in the early 60s.

They have only been back a few years and that itself has had a relegation in the middle of it.

No doubt they will go down again a few years from now and who knows when they will be back.

Relegation is never good.

The lower leagues are replete with clubs which were once top flight regulars and which went down ages ago and still have not come back.

Leeds, Blackburn, Forest, Derby, both Sheffield clubs.

You currently see Villa finding it hard to get out of the Championship.

It is easy to say a club “decides whether relegation is a calamity or a hiccup”.

I am sure all of those clubs I mentioned decided they were going to come straight back up.

It doesn’t work as simply as that in the real world.......there has in recent years been the rise of the upstart clubs like Bournemouth, Brighton and Huddersfield making it even harder for the Aston Villas and the Sunderlands to get back up.

And whilst you might glibly write off our top flight longevity as being of little account outside of Evertonia, I begs to differ.

It is that very longevity which sets us apart from those wannabe clubs for whom merely staying in the EPL is the end in itself.

Like aristocrats whom have fallen on hard times, our lineage gives us kudos and when people talk even about the Premier League era they can point at only seven of the original clubs being still in it.

The “top six” and EFC.

And only six which have been permanent members.

In these fallow days of trophy droughts there is one stat we can at least point to......the most seasons spent in the top flight.

And for chaps of my vintage there are only two teams which have never been relegated In our lifetime.......Arsenal are the other one

 

[DanEFC92]

it's civil war then, could be bad for the club, but great for the forum, lines are drawn pick your side super bloos

 

[Eggsyblueskin]

Good post in mate. I agree with a lot of it. But im going to take Man City as an example before the Sheik takeover. They had Sven Goran Erikson and Mark Huges as manager. It was only the takeover from the sheik from getting a new stadium from there Council, that really changed the scenery there. Not saying we are in exactly the same position as they were. But that just shows staying up with averageish managers like hughes, moving stadiums and taking a safe approach to stay up. Will eventually pay off.

Back to Everton. I dont believe Moshiri is as rich as we think (or willing to spend silly silly money) But his links in buisness will bring us more and more money (usmanov etc)

Aim before we get the stadium is to stay in the league at all costs. If its Allardyce this year. Fine. After he leaves Dyche. So be it. It maybe be then only the next appointment after this current vacany or the one after where we can start building and moving up and once we have moved grounds.

Sorry to say Martinez and Koeman have both taken us backwards, but we are still in the prem. But maybe its a few steps back to take one forward. It does happen in football and day to day life and buisness sometimes.

Keep the faith. COYB!

I wonder whether the whole stadium thing is achievable after the panorama programme anyway. You would imagine Usmanov would have ,however surreptitiously, provided at least some of the considerable funding. Now however I think he will be wary and ensure there is plenty of distance between himself and Everton. Which leaves Moshiri to raise £300mill+ on his jack. If he's as good a businessman as he is a football club owner , I won't be expecting a stadium in th e near future.

 

[dandydan]

it's civil war then, could be bad for the club, but great for the forum, lines are drawn pick your side super bloos

 

[mike91efc]

I wonder whether the whole stadium thing is achievable after the panorama programme anyway. You would imagine Usmanov would have ,however surreptitiously, provided at least some of the considerable funding. Now however I think he will be wary and ensure there is plenty of distance between himself and Everton. Which leaves Moshiri to raise £300mill+ on his jack. If he's as good a businessman as he is a football club owner , I won't be expecting a stadium in th e near future.

I think we will have another takeover in a few years after Moshiri. Happens a lot. Man City and The [Poor language removed] spring to mind. Like you say the stadium won't happen over night. Think we need to see it first before we can be 100% confident its happening haha With what happened down the road on the docks with Kenwright around and his other Stadium nearlys

 

[Eggsyblueskin]

Eggy.....if I am not mistaken Burnley spent about nearly forty odd years in the lower leagues after being relegated in the 70s, after having been a top flight club throughout my early life up to then, even being crowned Champions in the early 60s.

They have only been back a few years and that itself has had a relegation in the middle of it.

No doubt they will go down again a few years from now and who knows when they will be back.

Relegation is never good.

The lower leagues are replete with clubs which were once top flight regulars and which went down ages ago and still have not come back.

Leeds, Blackburn, Forest, Derby, both Sheffield clubs.

You currently see Villa finding it hard to get out of the Championship.

It is easy to say a club “decides whether relegation is a calamity or a hiccup”.

I am sure all of those clubs I mentioned decided they were going to come straight back up.

It doesn’t work as simply as that in the real world.......there has in recent years been the rise of the upstart clubs like Bournemouth, Brighton and Huddersfield making it even harder for the Aston Villas and the Sunderlands to get back up.

And whilst you might glibly write off our top flight longevity as being of little account outside of Evertonia, I begs to differ.

It is that very longevity which sets us apart from those wannabe clubs for whom merely staying in the EPL is the end in itself.

Like aristocrats whom have fallen on hard times, our lineage gives us kudos and when people talk even about the Premier League era they can point at only seven of the original clubs being still in it.

The “top six” and EFC.

And only six which have been permanent members.

In these fallow days of trophy droughts there is one stat we can at least point to......the most seasons spent in the top flight.

And for chaps of my vintage there are only two teams which have never been relegated In our lifetime.......Arsenal are the other one

I don't disagree with anything you say except the weight you give to top league longevity, I think it hamstrings us ,we fear it to much. In this day and age it counts for little and in truth if you bring it up nobody is overly impressed. How many European cups have we won? That carries far more kudos in my opinion.
The attraction of sport is that it is theatre were the script is written as you watch and the greater the hazard the greater the entertainment. If , at this point , the board take this cowardly decision to appoint this loathsome character as our manager the damage it will do to our support may well usher in championship football anyway.
Let's face it , it's been two generations since Everton football club last resembled the club I grew up with. What exists now is a mere facade , occasionally spruced up with a lick of cheap blue paint, but behind the facades the structure has grown rotten and been ripped away. All that remains is the heart and soul of a once great club. This putative appointment will take away the soul and then I fear the heart may fail.
Come on , let's make the bold decision , let's hazard a roll, let's pick the boldest option which appears to be Fonseca. Both may take us down but at least Fonseca may show a flash of the old Everton before we go. Who knows he may be the one to restore our fortune. Because win or lose I damn well know FatScum won't.

 

[mike91efc]

I think pretty much any good manager will keep the team up. Problem with Sam is he brings in players procured by his dodgy mates on long-term deals and tends to leave clubs in a bit of a mess.

Moyes or Dyche would have been better options. Heck, I think Pulis would have been better as he is not as demonstrably corrupt

Who is bringing in the players though. Is Walsh one of his dodgy mates along with Shakespeare????

 

[Rook]

There is no other viable options, so he'll do.

Are we talking about how I lost my virginity or Big Sam?

 

[mike91efc]

I don't disagree with anything you say except the weight you give to top league longevity, I think it hamstrings us ,we fear it to much. In this day and age it counts for little and in truth if you bring it up nobody is overly impressed. How many European cups have we won? That carries far more kudos in my opinion.
The attraction of sport is that it is theatre were the script is written as you watch and the greater the hazard the greater the entertainment. If , at this point , the board take this cowardly decision to appoint this loathsome character as our manager the damage it will do to our support may well usher in championship football anyway.
Let's face it , it's been two generations since Everton football club last resembled the club I grew up with. What exists now is a mere facade , occasionally spruced up with a lick of cheap blue paint, but behind the facades the structure has grown rotten and been ripped away. All that remains is the heart and soul of a once great club. This putative appointment will take away the soul and then I fear the heart may fail.
Come on , let's make the bold decision , let's hazard a roll, let's pick the boldest option which appears to be Fonseca. Both may take us down but at least Fonseca may show a flash of the old Everton before we go. Who knows he may be the one to restore our fortune. Because win or lose I damn well know FatScum won't.

Hmmm going on this theory as a hypothetical question. Would you take a relegation and an FA Cup trophy in the same season, like wigan did? I know its a mad. But i would. Im 26 and cant properly remember 95. Being very young. I (selfishly maybe) want to see us lift a major trophy. I think i would take the pain of a relegation for a an fa cup, europa league, carling cup win tbh. If we didnt have the new stadium talk i would have took it all day long. Having the new stadium makes this daft question even harder