Computer games.

[Connor]

Brexit had a legitimate gameplay impact; they had to add it due to work permits. As much as adding transfer windows or whatever. They're not remotely the same thing because of the gameplay impact and sense to include it.

As I've just said, if it has an effect on gameplay and was added with a raft of other methods and was thought out to include other sexualities, then absolutely fine. What about players who transition to another gender, meaning the player retires from the mens game? Or alcohol addiction where you send them to rehab? Or prison time for crimes? Again, you can have all these effect regens only if you have to.

But they haven't done that. Instead, they've added something completely unnecessary and in a completely lazy, half-arsed manner.

Tubes, you're far too bothered by this than any normal sane person should be.

 

[chicoazul]

It's the fact it adds nothing and is being added for superfluous reasons that have nothing to do with the game in context. Pandering in effect.

As said, if they added it with a raft of other measures in a system that had an actual meaning in the game, then I'd have no problem. But doing it this way just looks like bandwagon jumping and cheapens the issue overall. It doesn't even add social commentary, like "being black makes the game more difficult" in South Park - which is genius. It's just... there. For the sake of being there and getting headlines.

I'm just seeing too much of this stuff. Gay option in an RPG? Makes total sense. Gender/sexuality options in a create a character mode in any game that requires social interaction as part of the experience? Totally for it. But in the context of FM, it just makes zero sense.

You just said though it adds funding through LBGT funding so it has a purpose.

It’s also something which has a stigma in football so normalising it as part of a game that influences a lot of people is no sweat.

After all they’re gay so what? Can’t see how it would affect anyone that much to be honest.

 

[Tubey]

Tubes, you're far too bothered by this than any normal sane person should be.

Because it can be done better. It can at least be social commentary. It really annoys me because it's so horribly lazy.

It's actually offensive to me that a club earns a bit more money from gay people because a gay footballer plays for the club - they're saying clubs don't really have gay fans unless they have gay players - which is insane!

How much better would it be if instead of a token add-in, they had coming out as gay have an impact on other personalities around them? Say other players get a status update that says they feel uncomfortable with a gay person in the squad, and others were proud he had the courage to come out? Or the media attention made them unsettled, or the positive support on social media made them feel uplifted? You know, gameplay intricacies and social commentary that advances the issue, rather than just, "Hey look, we've added some text and sometimes people can be gay, just because!"

 

[Tubey]

You just said though it adds funding through LBGT funding so it has a purpose.

It’s also something which has a stigma in football so normalising it as part of a game that influences a lot of people is no sweat.

After all they’re gay so what? Can’t see how it would affect anyone that much to be honest.

It's the opposite of normalising it - it's actually singling it out. Normalising it would be not to mention sexuality at all because it doesn't matter, or to have by default every character in the game have a sexuality as a trait and not have news articles making a song and dance out of it.

 

[chicoazul]

Because it can be done better. It can at least be social commentary. It really annoys me because it's so horribly lazy.

It's actually offensive to me that a club earns a bit more money from gay people because a gay footballer plays for the club - they're saying clubs don't really have gay fans unless they have gay players - which is insane!

How much better would it be if instead of a token add-in, they had coming out as gay have an impact on other personalities around them? Say other players get a status update that says they feel uncomfortable with a gay person in the squad, and others were proud he had the courage to come out? Or the media attention made them unsettled, or the positive support on social media made them feel uplifted? You know, gameplay intricacies and social commentary that advances the issue, rather than just, "Hey look, we've added some text and sometimes people can be gay, just because!"

Think you’re reading too much into it mate. Think it’s fair to say that a footballer coming out as gay would win plaudits and maybe a following from the LGBT community. Which would be sound. Good on the game for thinking of such angles. And because there’s no bigots here then it’s fine isn’t it?

 

[Armel]

It's the fact it adds nothing and is being added for superfluous reasons that have nothing to do with the game in context. Pandering in effect.

As said, if they added it with a raft of other measures in a system that had an actual meaning in the game, then I'd have no problem. But doing it this way just looks like bandwagon jumping and cheapens the issue overall. It doesn't even add social commentary, like "being black makes the game more difficult" in South Park - which is genius. It's just... there. For the sake of being there and getting headlines.

I'm just seeing too much of this stuff. Gay option in an RPG? Makes total sense. Gender/sexuality options in a create a character mode in any game that requires social interaction as part of the experience? Totally for it. But in the context of FM, it just makes zero sense.

Why does it have to add anything to the game. Wasn’t a lot of work and if it somewhat helps to improve awareness/ rights whatever of homosexuals in football the better. They already had the advertising boards containing the Football against racism campaigns, Equality in football and loads of other social campaigns. This somewhat builds upon that.

Can’t see why you would get annoyed. It doesn’t directly negatively effect you when playing and it possibly makes some people happy...

The game is full of aesthetic things that don’t affect the actual gameplay nowadays. Like choosing a costume etc, social media ... Better of playing one of the older versions if you want a pure experience.

 

[chicoazul]

It's the opposite of normalising it - it's actually singling it out. Normalising it would be not to mention sexuality at all because it doesn't matter, or to have by default every character in the game have a sexuality as a trait and not have news articles making a song and dance out of it.

Yes but there’s a stigma about professional male footballers coming out as gay isn’t there mate? So no mentioning it and normalising it is props to the computer game people in my book because there’s obviously gay footballers out there. As far as I see it the only people who would be arsed about it are part of the ignorance and the problem.

I reckon there should be more of a stigma about obsessing over football manager games past the age of 16 but that’s for another thread.

 

[Tubey]

Yes but there’s a stigma about professional male footballers coming out as gay isn’t there mate? So no mentioning it and normalising it is props to the computer game people in my book because there’s obviously gay footballers out there. As far as I see it the only people who wold be arsed about it are part of the ignorance and the problem.

I reckon there should be more of a stigma about obsessing over football manager games past the age of 16 but that’s for another thread.

I'm a believer that if you do something, do it properly or don't do it at all.

There's certainly a stigma about it and it is an issue that can be addressed. But not by a half-arsed news article update that doesn't affect the game or even attempts to take a stab at the issue in an overarching way.

It's not the subject matter I have a problem with; it's how it's been implemented. That isn't ignorance; that's demanding better. I'm arsed about it because I want better.

 

[chicoazul]

I'm a believer that if you do something, do it properly or don't do it at all.

There's certainly a stigma about it and it is an issue that can be addressed. But not by a half-arsed news article update that doesn't affect the game or even attempts to take a stab at the issue in an overarching way.

It's not the subject matter I have a problem with; it's how it's been implemented. That isn't ignorance; that's demanding better. I'm arsed about it because I want better.

But if there’s a certain nonchalance about it and proof of a positive impact then that’s a pretty good message in the game itself if they seek to normalise an unfair stigma mate. It flashes on your screen without hampering I presume any of your user controlled strategy, and even gives you a financial boost.

So where’s the problem exactly mate? I’d be made up getting that for nothing.

 

[Azzurri]

I guess some people just aren’t down with the whole gay thing.

 

[chicoazul]

I guess some people just aren’t down with the whole gay thing.

Which is commendable for the game designers for putting it in there to normalise it. I’ll hold my hands up and say perhaps I’m missing some context here as it’s absolutely no thing really. Only pluses for having it rather than not in the game.

 

[Connor]

I guess some people just aren’t down with the whole gay thing.

Sad really.

2017 now, not 1817.

 

[Walken]

Why though?

It has no relevance to anything. What next? "Smith gets a new haircut", "Jones got pre-approved for a loan", "Donald has a new favourite song"....

It's a football management game, not a society simulator. It has no relevance to anything to do with football. They're gay - so what? If it's an RPG, or it was a game that gives frequent updates on players lives and it has an actual impact on the game - like "done for drunk driving" resulting in a club fine option or mental stats alteration etc. then fine.

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EDIT: Oh wait, it does.

Soon after, your commercial director will inform you of a boost in the club's revenue, in part due to new attention from the lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender (LGBT) community.

So... gay people aren't allowed to invest in a club unless gay people play for them? Reallllllly??!

-------

Why stop there? If this is now a randomly generated RPG footballer life simulator, why can't they get drug addictions, mental health breakdowns and so on? Hell, why can't they be bisexual - do bisexual people not exist?

Really does my nut in this type of stuff. Stupid.

I don't really see why football shouldn't reflect society, and progressive movements forward towards equality, football has reflected society in so many ways throughout different era's, I realise we will have the usual 'pc gone mad' brigade out here, but I'm actually quite impressed with this move forward, as frankly football has been some distance behind other sports in normalising homosexuality, intentionally or not

 

[Tubey]

But if there’s a certain nonchalance about it and proof of a positive impact then that’s a pretty good message in the game itself if they seek to normalise an unfair stigma mate. It flashes on your screen without hampering I presume any of your user controlled strategy, and even gives you a financial boost.

So where’s the problem exactly mate? I’d be made up getting that for nothing.

Nonchalance isn't what I'd call it. Nonchalant was when Fallout 4 let you casually have a myriad of different relationships - not just monogamous - and didn't draw any attention to it whatsoever - it was just there. And it was brilliant. That's normalising an issue done right - it sent the message out that it's an RPG you play your way and you be you. Anyone complaining about the fact that you could voluntarily choose a gay relationship in that game would be off their rocker.

This though? This is a nothing action. It's marketing. To include something this important in how our society works and make no effort to have it make any commentary is irritating to me, but for some reason people can't understand my point of view on it when it's obvious to me. It would have been 1000x better if they simply had all regens have a set sexuality from a list of whatever many and presented it as "look, this is hear, everyone has a sexuality, including footballers, deal with reality" - that would have been absolutely amazing.

But a pop up song and dance news article with only a positive outcome - when the issue itself is clearly one of societal stigma - is a total missed opportunity and a crying shame in my eyes.

 

[Connor]

Hope Football Manager 2019 tackles similar issues to Mark Sampson.

That's the next step to realism.