Ronald Koeman discussion

[dannyboy]

I know that Koeman is rightly being slaughtered right now (myself included), but I really do think that the squad we have is nowhere near as good as it was hyped up to be in the summer. This is something which can't be pinned solely on him; it's something which he, Walsh and the board really need to be held accountable for as a collective. It's a question for a thread of its own and whilst I'm not defending Koeman here, I am starting to question if this squad really is even that good, as some seem to believe.

Quality wise, we have some good technical players and a promising goalkeeper. On paper everyone thought our midfield had good strength in depth. That hasn't been the case. And the balance of our team is completely all off. We have no pace, no width and no striker for starters.

We have enough about us to not be in the position we're in right now in the table. But for the investment we put into the squad in the summer (net spend argument is invalid), it's really disappointing seeing the starting 11's we're putting out week after week. According to some posters on here our best player has been a premier league veteran who a top 6 club deemed completely surplus to their requirements and no longer wanted. Thats just not good enough for a club with our "ambitions".

As you say it'll take another window of spending in January to even begin to fix our problems. A better manager would help us right now, I don't doubt that. Silva and Benitez are doing far superior jobs with far less backing in the transfer market. But they've assembled balanced teams and the fact is the squad we currently have right now is so imbalanced and so deficient in areas which are key to success in this league that I don't see us improving even under a new man until we can sign some other players. And how much is the club going to even cough up in January for transfer funds? Worrying times for us right now.

We've lost genuine quality in Lukaku and Barkley and replaced with players who are nowhere near as good. Sigurdsson has been the huge disappointment for me, for the money we paid and considering he had been in the Premier League for so many years he really needed to hit the ground running.

The rest in Rooney, Klaassen and Sandro have been such a downgrade on what we had already. Even Keane looks like he's struggling to adapt to life at a bigger club, which I guess is understandable but you can't bring in so many new players and have them all find it difficult to make the transition.

 

[ijjysmith]

It’s all probably about 84.493837% Koeman’s fault where we are right now for me.

But the 15.506163% should not be forgotten.

 

[Bob Latchford]

I think he's got to go.

I've listened to and read various opinions on him. Some suggesting he gets time, others saying he's inevitably heading for the door.

There's a lot of talk around the sheer amount of money we've spent and also the need to allow players time to bed in. With the amount of cash going out (albeit we recouped a big chunk of that on Rom) comes expectation, let's face it, we are failing miserably. The last good performance we turned in was the first half away to City. Our system and style of play make our recruitment of those to play in it baffling. No pace, no creativity, 3-4 No.10s, no striker, two holding players, Barkley situation, Niasse situation, Kev Mirallles, Inevitable Europa exit, 5 league goals scored all this with a turgid, boring pedestrian style of play.....

Maybe writing this before I finish my morning coffee isn't a good idea, but I just don't see this guy getting it right/turning us around.

@davek you were right!

 

[kenada_blue]

He plays 4.3.3 or with wingbacks

Were Valencia touted as being in with a chance to win the league that season / break into the top 2 at least?

Is it widely accepted that Koeman had them on course for relegation before his sacking?

Did the players let it be known they ignored Koemans tactics to win the cup?

The three questions above are of course leading to factual 'yes' responses.


If you want to suggest that Koeman brought Mata through, then you can make the same case for Davies, Kenny, Lookman and DCL with us when we all know he would do anything not to play them but sign and play players (worse or out of form) in ahead of them.

You mention that Koeman fell out with the players and it was a 'vipers nest', could we not say that he fell out with these same players and mistreated them to the extent that some filed cases in court against the club during his tenure? Could we also not also make the same case at Southampton where its believed several players hated him...also even at benfica the players classed him as 'weird'.

Are there not parallels with what some are commenting on his management style even today?

I absolutely detest him, top quality but an evil, arrogant streak as a player and a man wrapped up in his own self importance.

Its a pity such people are so highly rewarded in the world we live in.

Theres that article that had an example of things that happened at Valencia which is just his pure egotistical stubbornness.

If I remember he dropped Benaga for turning up late to a meeting but gave another player a free ride after being done for drink driving the night before. Benaga wasn't happy.

It's stuff like that which draws a lot of parallels with him falling out with players.

 

[Toffeelover]

It’s all probably about 84.493837% Koeman’s fault where we are right now for me.

But the 15.506163% should not be forgotten.

So in simple terms that is 85% Koeman's fault and 15% not to forget. For me it would be more like 90/10.

 

[Lowste]

T

So in simple terms that is 85% Koeman's fault and 15% not to forget. For me it would be more like 90/10.

agree

 

[ijjysmith]

So in simple terms that is 85% Koeman's fault and 15% not to forget. For me it would be more like 90/10.

Don’t question the percentages. They change by the minute.

 

[tim cahill]

The signings would improve massively if he went, he just doesn't have a club how and where to play them, he's clueless.

To be fair to Koeman he's tried a lot of different combinations and formations with the players he's got. Unfortunately none of them have worked.

 

[TheCount]

Even if we were bottom come December?

We won't be, but yes.

 

[Blitzer2011]

We've lost genuine quality in Lukaku and Barkley and replaced with players who are nowhere near as good. Sigurdsson has been the huge disappointment for me, for the money we paid and considering he had been in the Premier League for so many years he really needed to hit the ground running.

The rest in Rooney, Klaassen and Sandro have been such a downgrade on what we had already. Even Keane looks like he's struggling to adapt to life at a bigger club, which I guess is understandable but you can't bring in so many new players and have them all find it difficult to make the transition.

so rooney is an apparent downgrade on what we had? i forget who else scored for us last season? if im right the next top goal scorer was 5 ish last season. rooney has 4 this season

 

[Thomasc]

I think he's got to go.

I've listened to and read various opinions on him. Some suggesting he gets time, others saying he's inevitably heading for the door.

There's a lot of talk around the sheer amount of money we've spent and also the need to allow players time to bed in. With the amount of cash going out (albeit we recouped a big chunk of that on Rom) comes expectation, let's face it, we are failing miserably. The last good performance we turned in was the first half away to City. Our system and style of play make our recruitment of those to play in it baffling. No pace, no creativity, 3-4 No.10s, no striker, two holding players, Barkley situation, Niasse situation, Kev Mirallles, Inevitable Europa exit, 5 league goals scored all this with a turgid, boring pedestrian style of play.....

Maybe writing this before I finish my morning coffee isn't a good idea, but I just don't see this guy getting it right/turning us around.

[B]@davek[/B] you were right!

Go on, I will bite.

What was he right about?

The majority of what he wrote was just general bitterness because of his Martinez man crush, one which he was way off the mark with because the man was a joke of a manager.

Koeman had a very steady and decent first season, so in truth he was wrong but would not admit it.

We have introduced too many new players possibly, have little if any pace in the side and it is widely acknowledged that we bought too many similar type players, which he is responsible for of which I will not dispute.

So he has got a few things wrong yes. But lets not lick Dave's bottom because his bitterness towards Koeman was so apparent, that at the first sign of trouble he can say "I told you so", it simply isn't the case.

 

[Barnfred 55]

Were gonna wait till Koeman takes us into the relegation zone, then appoint someone like Alardyce to save us. You know its bad when your content with Everton Football Club appointing Sam Alardyce.

Never. I'd burn my ST and post the video on here first.

 

[Timak]

So he has got a few things wrong yes. But lets not lick Dave's bottom because his bitterness towards Koeman was so apparent, that at the first sign of trouble he can say "I told you so", it simply isn't the case.

Lads, lads, can't we just agree they were both useless?

Martinez had an idea of what he wanted to do but couldn't coach it and couldn't do the basics like organise a defence (once the Moyes era players started to decline) and keep players fit and motivated.

Koeman was able to organise a defence and get players fit. However his signings don't fit in with his system and massive gaps are left in the first XI.

Any new manager is going to need a centre back. Baines challenger and a striker as a minimum. Patching things up with Mirrallas and Barkley would help massively too.

 

[Thomasc]

Lads, lads, can't we just agree they were both useless?

Martinez had an idea of what he wanted to do but couldn't coach it and couldn't do the basics like organise a defence (once the Moyes era players started to decline) and keep players fit and motivated.

Koeman was able to organise a defence and get players fit. However his signings don't fit in with his system and massive gaps are left in the first XI.

Any new manager is going to need a centre back. Baines challenger and a striker as a minimum. Patching things up with Mirrallas and Barkley would help massively too.

I gave Martinez 2 1/2 seasons mate. Some of these bitter knee jerkers wanted Koeman out in his first season, so sorry, it's a no from me.

Some of the pandering on here to some posters is jaw droppingly cringeworthy.

 

[dannyboy]

so rooney is an apparent downgrade on what we had? i forget who else scored for us last season? if im right the next top goal scorer was 5 ish last season. rooney has 4 this season

Rooney is such a huge downgrade on Lukaku and Barkley in everything he does. Open your eyes.

Why do you think United gave him to us for free? Their fans were doing cartwheels when they got rid of him.