Ronald Koeman discussion

[KevMirallas]

People need to remember this Everton team is a work in progress.

Not the end result.

We have a lot of new playes who have only played single digits games for the club.

We're at the beginning of building a team. Not the end. Regardless of how much money we spent.



The objective of our first 5 games is to get as many points as possible.

Build from there. As we get stronger the season goes on.

Yep, the only objective from these first five games is to stay in and around the hunt. Our charge will come later in the season, when the fixture list opens up and our squad is properly embedded.

 

[CRIMHEAD]

People need to remember this Everton team is a work in progress.

Not the end result.

We have a lot of new playes who have only played single digits games for the club.

We're at the beginning of building a team. Not the end. Regardless of how much money we spent.



The objective of our first 5 games is to get as many points as possible.

Build from there. As we get stronger the season goes on.

Spot on. These guys haven't played together much. They did look tactically aware on defense, but less so on offense. It'll take time.

And let's not forget, we weren't playing Hull. Man City are darn good. Likely the best team in the league.

 

[kenada_blue]

Some truth in that to be fair. I thought tonight was a good result, but there's still a big gap in the quality of the players on the pitch. I've no idea what the stats show, but, coming away tonight I felt City could, and probably should, have scored more than one.

For me, Koeman sits somewhere between Moyes and Martinez in his attitude. He's pragmatic enough to recognise he needs to set us up quite defensively against the likes of Citeh, but, like Martinez and unlike Moyes, he believes he can actually achieve something at our club.

Whether or not he will, time will tell and all that.

Stuck in the middle of being a pessimist and an optimist.

End of the day, I expected more from us in that 2nd half against 10 men. But instead we played worse and didn't threaten once.

I also expected it to be a good opportunity for the manager to change what was progressively becoming inevitable as that half went on. Show something different than what we've generally come to expect.

 

[kenada_blue]

Does he though? He seems atm, much near to Moyes. As you say it's wait and see, but for how long?...can we really afford the time and money, for a better funded Moyes to spunk a possible quarter of a billion quid or more, all for 'close, but no cigar'.

That's how I see it.

 

[kenada_blue]

Because the gap is arguably the same now between us and the top of the league as it was under Moyes - we spend £300m City spend £500m (I'm just guessing there). City have spent nearly £100m this summer alone on fullbacks- we got martina on a free!

I'm sure Burnley said the same thing when they went 3.0 up against a 10 man Chelsea last week.

 

[Eggs]

..I liked that he'd learned from first half in the Stoke game. Then he went with a back 3 but Keane was dreadfully exposed on the right side and we had no focal point up front. Last night he brought Holgate in to plug the weakness on the right side and pushed DCL up top. Much better.

I was also content when he switched to a flat back four in the 2nd half.

 

[kenada_blue]

Cant believe Koeman is getting stick for taking off a defender and putting 2 attackers on.

He actually went for the game.

And it didn't work. So... surely we can point that out and ask why?

 

[bicycleheader]

He brought on attacking players. I would argue he shouldn't have. Either way, the point is to win the match. City were down a guy. They weren't creating a whole lot, regardless of their possession numbers.

You also are giving him no credit for the tactics that put us up 1-0. You can't say he blew it after we were up without giving him credit for the tactics that got us there.

I personally think a lot of the improvement in the defence last season was more due to us sitting deeper and having lots of midfield cover in front of the defence. I think last night was basic sit and crowd the space. It works, and was working, but I don't consider it a reason for me to laud whatever manager we have. Brighton held them for 70 mins by sitting deep. I understand and agree with the use of that approach to keep it tight early on but don't think it was any masterclass.

I wish the point was only to win the match, unfortunately for much of the last decade or more the point in the big games has been draw the match. Especially away from home.

Again, Koeman might change that and he should get his time to try do so, but I personally don't think he will change it much if at all.

 

[bluestevon]

Argue tactics and management all you want. The 2 points we lost are squarely on the manager...he got it wrong.

I hate that hoofball is his thing.

we drew away at city mate, I'm pretty sure ANY manager in the league would take that result right now if you offered them it

 

[bluestevon]

I personally think a lot of the improvement in the defence last season was more due to us sitting deeper and having lots of midfield cover in front of the defence. I think last night was basic sit and crowd the space. It works, and was working, but I don't consider it a reason for me to laud whatever manager we have. Brighton held them for 70 mins by sitting deep. I understand and agree with the use of that approach to keep it tight early on but don't think it was any masterclass.

I wish the point was only to win the match, unfortunately for much of the last decade or more the point in the big games has been draw the match. Especially away from home.

Again, Koeman might change that and he should get his time to try do so, but I personally don't think he will change it much if at all.

For starters - Brigton where at home mate, BIG difference andif we sat deep against them there then yeah you'd have cause to complain, but given the fact when we did play them at home last season we absolutely bummed them i think comparing how we played away against them is a tad unfair

 

[Dirty Dutch]

In the first 5 or 6 games it's all about getting results. We're playing city, chelsea, man utd away and spurs at home. In between we have some Europa league matches. We bought like 7 new players, lost our best player and we still need 2 more players(striker and defender) and yesterday he played Holgate, Davies and Calvert Lewin who're all around 20. Yet people still giving him stick and call him no upgrade on Moyes because we played with 11 against 10 in the second half against arguably the best team of the league. With 10 man they're still having much more individual class. If mourinho would've done this people would say it was a mourinho masterclass etc. And he has much more individual quality than us.

Some people really need to wake up and realise that clubs like city and utd can still spend a lot more and can attract proven worldclass players. We cant do that so we just need to improve every year with players like Keane and pickford and hope they will develop into worldclass players. That needs time. Even if we're spending 100 mil every window it will take years to be on the same level.

 

[bicycleheader]

People need to remember this Everton team is a work in progress.

Not the end result.

We have a lot of new playes who have only played single digits games for the club.

We're at the beginning of building a team. Not the end. Regardless of how much money we spent.



The objective of our first 5 games is to get as many points as possible.

Build from there. As we get stronger the season goes on.

It is a work in progress, but the manager is a season in and critical comment is normal enough.

We are the beginning of building a team, but that doesn't mean the manager gets a pass until whenever the 'end' of that building process is.

He will get his 3 seasons minimum, hopefully he can change some of these same old Everton situations that we are all tired of. Like not grabbing a situation like last night's and making the most of it.

 

[bicycleheader]

For starters - Brigton where at home mate, BIG difference andif we sat deep against them there then yeah you'd have cause to complain, but given the fact when we did play them at home last season we absolutely bummed them i think comparing how we played away against them is a tad unfair

True, but I would think that 4-0 was a one off given what I have seen of Koeman. Hopefully he proves me wrong.

I don't think Brighton being at home makes a difference to the point I was making in that the general approach to the game doesn't warrant any particular plaudits for the manager. I wasn't arguing his choice of tactics Stev.

 

[CahillsCornerFlag]

I agree, a point at city is a good result and you'd take it 9/10 times.

I also agree it wasn't a 'bad' performance. It wasn't a particularly good one either though if we're honest.

What I take issue with is people making out like it's a great result and tactical masterpiece. It was moyes all over. I have no real issue with that as I liked moyes, but I just find it odd that he was beaten with the top 4 stick for so long and now £300m up the road a new manager is doing the same things and getting the same results, yet now it's brilliant instead of disgraceful.

The gulf between ours and city's squads is bigger than when moyes was turning up and getting a draw/win. They've had years now of spending hundreds of millions each summer, their team is full of top, top players, and we're still only at the beginning of our transformation. City started their crusade for world domination almost a decade ago, people would do well to remember that.

Koeman sent the correct players on to try and score a second last night, but we just played a bit rubbish in the second half and got punished. Totally different to limping to a 1-1 like last season which was a total freak result, progress for me.

 

[bicycleheader]

In the first 5 or 6 games it's all about getting results. We're playing city, chelsea, man utd away and spurs at home. In between we have some Europa league matches. We bought like 7 new players, lost our best player and we still need 2 more players(striker and defender) and yesterday he played Holgate, Davies and Calvert Lewin who're all around 20. Yet people still giving him stick and call him no upgrade on Moyes because we played with 11 against 10 in the second half against arguably the best team of the league. With 10 man they're still having much more individual class. If mourinho would've done this people would say it was a mourinho masterclass etc. And he has much more individual quality than us.

Some people really need to wake up and realise that clubs like city and utd can still spend a lot more and can attract proven worldclass players. We cant do that so we just need to improve every year with players like Keane and pickford and hope they will develop into worldclass players. That needs time. Even if we're spending 100 mil every window it will take years to be on the same level.

It's not that black and white.

All of that does not change the fact we had a good situation in that game and we didn't capitalise on it because we spent the game sitting too deep with a man up. Again, I've seen that game many times from us and I'd like to see some improvement on that. We are paying big bucks to see an improvement on that.

But, there's time to see if with his own players he can do so. Hopefully so.