Homepage Update: A problem like Ross Barkley

[peteblue]

catcherintherye submitted an update to GrandOldTeam's homepage

A problem like Ross Barkley

In Koeman’s press conference before Everton’s final home match against Watford a headline bit of news was made- Barkley had until next weekend to sign a contract or would be sold. So far the supporters have in the main fallen in behind Koeman’s stance, yet the question can and will remain- how far does this announcement derail Everton’s ambitions to move forward?

Ross Barkley has arguably become the biggest problem for Everton. On the playing side you can see a mercurially talented lad who doesn’t deliver on this as often or consistently as he should. Off the field, in a season where Davies, Calvert Lewin, Mirallas and Coleman have extended their stays, Ross has yet to sign a new deal. He was/is the great young hope and to lose him would be a symbolic act that could cause damage. He is a problem to Everton though you would hardly guess it with Koeman’s clinical language and approach minimizing wider concerns.

Barkley’s Side

Before we ponder on what this means more broadly, what might Barkley be thinking? With little inside knowledge much of what I propose is speculation though attempts are made to deal where possible with concrete evidence we have available. He has lost his place for England (I believe harshly) and at different times for Everton. Koeman has not been the most sympathetic to his difficulties with England, and in a dismissive way has said he needs to improve if he wants to play for England. Maybe Barkley views this approach as unsupportive and needs the clichéd “arm around the shoulder”.

While there can be little doubt a Contract has been offered, we are still unsure of terms. Some speculate it is around the 70k p/w mark. Within the abstraction of football this is by no means groundbreaking. It’s not indicative of a club who view Barkley as their “main man” going forward or place a value on him in any equivalence to Lukaku. Is this what Barkley wants to see? Has Barkley done enough to justify this?

Koeman’s side

It is my viewpoint that Koeman is unsure of Barkley. It’s not that I feel Koeman doesn’t rate him but more he is unsure exactly how to utilize him. Barring the occasional game it’s been hard to see him play with a level of responsibility that Davies, Schneiderlin, Gana or even McCarthy have in central midfield. When pushed further forward he seems to lack either the pace or end return in goals that Koeman may be striving for in those positions. While his performances aren’t universally poor he does resemble at times a central midfield player who is a little careless on the ball playing as a forward player, as opposed to a forward player.

My opinion of Koeman is that he wants cogs in a wheel. He is not massively interested in players who don’t fit nicely into what he is looking for. He wants lad who can run and press defensively and contribute with goals and assists going forward. At present that system has not massively suited Ross and as yet he has yet to deliver the sort of return on goals that for example a Lukaku has which may have provided enough ammunition to Koeman to alter the system to get the best from him.

I sense this is underpinning the value of the contract we have offered him. A player we want to keep? Absolutely. A player who is imperative to us going forward and we need to build a side around? Currently no.

Moshiri’s difficulties

While much of the prognosis here will be best served in a separate article this summer represents a huge challenge to Moshiri. Losing Barkley and Lukaku a summer after losing Stones would not chime with “nothing will ever be the same”. For Evertonians of a certain age it would be akin to more of the same. Think Ball, Jeffers, Dunne, Rooney and Rodwell. All young players in the main sacrificed long before Evertonians were ready to let them go.

I have little doubt Moshiri wants what is best for Everton however actions do speak louder than words. Could you imagine after a year or so at Chelsea Roman would have allowed the most talented 3 young players he had at the club to have left? Ask the same question of the Sheikh at City? If outgoings are met with a range of exciting incomings discontent may be thwarted however if a repeat of last summers transfer debacle is repeated I would anticipate some of the universal positivity that surrounds Moshiri to begin to be questioned.

Legitimately Evertonians will ask how a regime that wishes to be the best can keep two figures who are tied to the decline and mediocrity (at best) of the club in the previous 15 years yet seemingly the best young players are allowed to walk away. Most of the young players sold above were done so on Kenwright’s watch and it won’t be lost upon people he and Elstone remain on the board.

Conclusion

My own position for the last few weeks is that Barkley would leave and that while Koeman does not want him too he is ambivalent to the prospect. The links to Tielemans and now Klaasen- both midfielders who fit his role and have a far greater goal return indicated to me Koeman may go and sign a player who fits the mould of what he’s after as opposed to try to mould one.

There’ a ruthlessness attached to the club now that has been missing for 25 years and maybe the departure of another young local talent differs from previous examples in that it is at least partly the clubs decision. As Evertonians we have framed young players leaving as an act of tragedy befitting an unequal commercialized game stealing our assets. The academy has remained the one area of the club we continue to look like Everton of old (we remain amongst the best) yet those players leaving was a cruel reminder of how far we’d fallen in other aspects. Perhaps it is these perceptions that now need to change. There’s no nobility in football and rather than being on the outside being a victim of it, we are increasingly going to resemble a club looking to succeed within the confines of this game?

As for Barkley I hope he stays. I think Koeman has improved aspects of him game and feel another 12 months with him and he would improve further. I also feel Koeman is well aware of it and his words and actions are of a man who feels it would be Barkley’s not Evertons loss if he were to go. This may be true, without the support the local fan base affords him his inconsistencies may be more challenged. It may also be the making of Barkley. A manager like Pochetino who has massively improved other English players (Kane, Alli, Walker, Rose and Dier) and a career outside the goldfish bowl of Merseyside and the weight of expectation that Barkley seems to carry may be just what he requires?

Whatever decision he makes Koeman has been right about one thing- that is that Barkley cannot just consider himself a young prospect indefinitely. While his record at the start of the season matched Scholes, Gerrard and Lampard at the same age, with 2-3 years all were playing central roles in winning their sides domestic and European trophies. Barkley’s unwillingness to sign a contract indicates a player who sees that process may be best served at another club.

Nice one.....

 

[peteblue]

Nicely written piece catcher.

That thought in your conclusion about seeing younger players being sold as a tragedy is an interesting one. I think it's right to challenge that notion. I dont think it applies to Barkley anyway as he's been here a few seasons - he hasn't been plucked fresh from the ranks after a good first season - and we have seen pretty much the whole of his game (others may get the best of it out on a far more consistent basis like).

But I disagree that he's a player that falls between two stools as you imply. For me it;s been plain what he is for years: in a strong team he's the creative player in central midfield with a player or two around him providing the platform for him to work off. If he goes to a club above us in the PL he'll be taking up a fairly orthodox role in that context. It's Everton's problem not his if he looks like a player that fits awkwardly into a team.

A great player changes a game, Ball did it consistently, Ross is more like Rodwell than Ball....

 

[varnish]

If he leaves, I can see him at Stoke or their ilk within three years, another wasted potential.

 

[toffeejack]

we've got a problem called Ross Barkley, a toffee who comes from wavertree

 

[Saint Domingo]

All this 'he'll shine at a top club' is rubbish. Is Stones shining? Did Jeffers, Rodwell? The only one you'd put your money on was Rooney because he was so good for us too. Top players don't make excuses, they don't need teams built around them in certain ways, they don't need certain styles of man management etc. they have the internal drive to make stuff happen themselves. Barkley has not shown that, there's no reason therefore he'll suddenly turn into Zidane if he goes to Spurs or Arsenal.

 

[Frank Gallagher]

All this 'he'll shine at a top club' is rubbish. Is Stones shining? Did Jeffers, Rodwell? The only one you'd put your money on was Rooney because he was so good for us too. Top players don't make excuses, they don't need teams built around them in certain ways, they don't need certain styles of man management etc. they have the internal drive to make stuff happen themselves. Barkley has not shown that, there's no reason therefore he'll suddenly turn into Zidane if he goes to Spurs or Arsenal.

If koeman questions his workrate then what will pochettino make of it. he splashed out 30m on sissoko and obv doesnt rate him. Hes prepared to bench expensive players if they dont perform.

 

[ilikecheese]

All this 'he'll shine at a top club' is rubbish. Is Stones shining? Did Jeffers, Rodwell? The only one you'd put your money on was Rooney because he was so good for us too. Top players don't make excuses, they don't need teams built around them in certain ways, they don't need certain styles of man management etc. they have the internal drive to make stuff happen themselves. Barkley has not shown that, there's no reason therefore he'll suddenly turn into Zidane if he goes to Spurs or Arsenal.

Absolutely right. Personally I don't think he can handle the pressures of a big money transfer. His confidence always rides on a razors edge.

 

[robbo1957]

Everybody's making the assumption he will move. We may try and sell him but if no one offers anywhere near our expectations or it's a club Ross doesn't want to move to what does Koeman do if he's still here running out his contract?
I want Ross do well and I want it to be here, which I doubt it will be, but I don't think he's going to make the next step to become a great premier league player.

 

[lancs blue]

Need to get rid the kid's head is full of his own importance. There are plenty more out there with an higher work rate etc. shame we have no alternative at the moment to highlight how inconsistent he's been

 

[Kiril84]

First of all he needs to think about improving his game, 2 good games out of 5 is not good enough for someone with his ambitious and talent.Star player in his position score about 15 goals per season.We can't rely on one player scoring goals. Barkley is one of my favourite players but ok, even if he stays here, he will sit on the bench next season if he doesn't change something.

 

[Prevenger17]

catcherintherye submitted an update to GrandOldTeam's homepage

A problem like Ross Barkley

In Koeman’s press conference before Everton’s final home match against Watford a headline bit of news was made- Barkley had until next weekend to sign a contract or would be sold. So far the supporters have in the main fallen in behind Koeman’s stance, yet the question can and will remain- how far does this announcement derail Everton’s ambitions to move forward?

Ross Barkley has arguably become the biggest problem for Everton. On the playing side you can see a mercurially talented lad who doesn’t deliver on this as often or consistently as he should. Off the field, in a season where Davies, Calvert Lewin, Mirallas and Coleman have extended their stays, Ross has yet to sign a new deal. He was/is the great young hope and to lose him would be a symbolic act that could cause damage. He is a problem to Everton though you would hardly guess it with Koeman’s clinical language and approach minimizing wider concerns.

Barkley’s Side

Before we ponder on what this means more broadly, what might Barkley be thinking? With little inside knowledge much of what I propose is speculation though attempts are made to deal where possible with concrete evidence we have available. He has lost his place for England (I believe harshly) and at different times for Everton. Koeman has not been the most sympathetic to his difficulties with England, and in a dismissive way has said he needs to improve if he wants to play for England. Maybe Barkley views this approach as unsupportive and needs the clichéd “arm around the shoulder”.

While there can be little doubt a Contract has been offered, we are still unsure of terms. Some speculate it is around the 70k p/w mark. Within the abstraction of football this is by no means groundbreaking. It’s not indicative of a club who view Barkley as their “main man” going forward or place a value on him in any equivalence to Lukaku. Is this what Barkley wants to see? Has Barkley done enough to justify this?

Koeman’s side

It is my viewpoint that Koeman is unsure of Barkley. It’s not that I feel Koeman doesn’t rate him but more he is unsure exactly how to utilize him. Barring the occasional game it’s been hard to see him play with a level of responsibility that Davies, Schneiderlin, Gana or even McCarthy have in central midfield. When pushed further forward he seems to lack either the pace or end return in goals that Koeman may be striving for in those positions. While his performances aren’t universally poor he does resemble at times a central midfield player who is a little careless on the ball playing as a forward player, as opposed to a forward player.

My opinion of Koeman is that he wants cogs in a wheel. He is not massively interested in players who don’t fit nicely into what he is looking for. He wants lad who can run and press defensively and contribute with goals and assists going forward. At present that system has not massively suited Ross and as yet he has yet to deliver the sort of return on goals that for example a Lukaku has which may have provided enough ammunition to Koeman to alter the system to get the best from him.

I sense this is underpinning the value of the contract we have offered him. A player we want to keep? Absolutely. A player who is imperative to us going forward and we need to build a side around? Currently no.

Moshiri’s difficulties

While much of the prognosis here will be best served in a separate article this summer represents a huge challenge to Moshiri. Losing Barkley and Lukaku a summer after losing Stones would not chime with “nothing will ever be the same”. For Evertonians of a certain age it would be akin to more of the same. Think Ball, Jeffers, Dunne, Rooney and Rodwell. All young players in the main sacrificed long before Evertonians were ready to let them go.

I have little doubt Moshiri wants what is best for Everton however actions do speak louder than words. Could you imagine after a year or so at Chelsea Roman would have allowed the most talented 3 young players he had at the club to have left? Ask the same question of the Sheikh at City? If outgoings are met with a range of exciting incomings discontent may be thwarted however if a repeat of last summers transfer debacle is repeated I would anticipate some of the universal positivity that surrounds Moshiri to begin to be questioned.

Legitimately Evertonians will ask how a regime that wishes to be the best can keep two figures who are tied to the decline and mediocrity (at best) of the club in the previous 15 years yet seemingly the best young players are allowed to walk away. Most of the young players sold above were done so on Kenwright’s watch and it won’t be lost upon people he and Elstone remain on the board.

Conclusion

My own position for the last few weeks is that Barkley would leave and that while Koeman does not want him too he is ambivalent to the prospect. The links to Tielemans and now Klaasen- both midfielders who fit his role and have a far greater goal return indicated to me Koeman may go and sign a player who fits the mould of what he’s after as opposed to try to mould one.

There’ a ruthlessness attached to the club now that has been missing for 25 years and maybe the departure of another young local talent differs from previous examples in that it is at least partly the clubs decision. As Evertonians we have framed young players leaving as an act of tragedy befitting an unequal commercialized game stealing our assets. The academy has remained the one area of the club we continue to look like Everton of old (we remain amongst the best) yet those players leaving was a cruel reminder of how far we’d fallen in other aspects. Perhaps it is these perceptions that now need to change. There’s no nobility in football and rather than being on the outside being a victim of it, we are increasingly going to resemble a club looking to succeed within the confines of this game?

As for Barkley I hope he stays. I think Koeman has improved aspects of him game and feel another 12 months with him and he would improve further. I also feel Koeman is well aware of it and his words and actions are of a man who feels it would be Barkley’s not Evertons loss if he were to go. This may be true, without the support the local fan base affords him his inconsistencies may be more challenged. It may also be the making of Barkley. A manager like Pochetino who has massively improved other English players (Kane, Alli, Walker, Rose and Dier) and a career outside the goldfish bowl of Merseyside and the weight of expectation that Barkley seems to carry may be just what he requires?

Whatever decision he makes Koeman has been right about one thing- that is that Barkley cannot just consider himself a young prospect indefinitely. While his record at the start of the season matched Scholes, Gerrard and Lampard at the same age, with 2-3 years all were playing central roles in winning their sides domestic and European trophies. Barkley’s unwillingness to sign a contract indicates a player who sees that process may be best served at another club.

That's shorter than most of your normal posts. Great read, Catcher

 

[Ollie d]

Barkley may have not produced the explosive dribbling from deep of his first season but I think working with Koeman has improves him. Since Christmas he has (generally) looked much more involved, working harder and with Davies going beyond him has looked to have more options. Too often the players around him are too static.

 

[BlueToff]

Nicely written piece catcher.

That thought in your conclusion about seeing younger players being sold as a tragedy is an interesting one. I think it's right to challenge that notion. I dont think it applies to Barkley anyway as he's been here a few seasons - he hasn't been plucked fresh from the ranks after a good first season - and we have seen pretty much the whole of his game (others may get the best of it out on a far more consistent basis like).

But I disagree that he's a player that falls between two stools as you imply. For me it;s been plain what he is for years: in a strong team he's the creative player in central midfield with a player or two around him providing the platform for him to work off. If he goes to a club above us in the PL he'll be taking up a fairly orthodox role in that context. It's Everton's problem not his if he looks like a player that fits awkwardly into a team.

great piece @catcherintherye

Not particularly disagreeing here Dave, but for me Barkley the midfielder has been found out in the past two seasons - not that I think this is particularly Barkley's 'fault' as such.

When he first burst onto the scene (after a few cameos under Moyes) in pre-season 2013 and then obviously the following season, he was a breath of fresh air. He ran from deep, produced magic moments and scared defences.

That injury at the beginning of 2014/15 seemed to knock both is confidence and I think his pace off the mark suffered slightly as well. When he came back it was into a side playing well below their capabilities and unfortunately sides figured out a way to play against our midfield - basically, double-up on Barkley and restrict the space. Yes, he could still engineer some room with a turn of pace or bit of skill, but because of Martinez's style, the passing options when he did so were usually lateral, so there would still be nowhere to go - which is why most of our joy that season came against sides we could counter.

Start of 2015/16, Barkley took a step up. He showed real signs of not just re-finding his form, but also improving as a player. The side were also playing well going forward, which obviously helped.

But then in Feb 2016, when in fairness the whole team dipped, Ross just looked devoid of confidence. Martinez's system - by the end - wasn't getting the best out of anyone, but in Ross's case I think he actually took a step back.

So, pre-season this year, he looked sharp. Same with Deulofeu.

But for whatever reason, neither clicked in the first half of the campaign, with Barkley failing to cement any authority on games when played in the middle.

Ross's first 'really good' game this season IMO was Arsenal at home. He played left central midfield in a 4-1-4-1, but when we were on the attack he almost played as an inside forward.

This is the point for me that Koeman realised that Barkley would be more effective in that role, rather than in central midfield.

When he plays centrally, if the movement ahead of him is poor (which let's face it, it often is - which is why losing Bolasie was such a shame as his movement is very good and his pace helps as well) he tends to dally in possession, and I don't think he possesses the tools that Koeman likes in a midfielder. Energy to get up and down, aggressive but smart in the tackle and in possession.

Ross is a risk taker, which is what makes him the player he is and could still become, but Koeman's system relies upon having those players operating in the final third.

For me, Ross has taken another step in the back half of the season because of that tactical switch. Maybe it was necessity, or maybe Koeman happened upon it, but either way it's improved him as a player - and Ross has obviously done well to adapt to it.

We are keen to keep Ross but, as Catcher said, he may not be the key player we all thought he was or would be. Looking at Koeman's S'ton side as an example, I can't think of one 'stand-out' player that they could not win a game without for example. Cogs in a wheel.

 

[cadex]

You look at the play makers in the teams we aspire to be competing with Sanchez, Couthino, Mata, Hazard, KDB, Silva, Eriksen. Does Ross have the talent to be as good, yes, has he proven he will ever be, no.

Football can be a cruel game and what ever is going on isnt working and can be improved on if he leaves or stays.

What the above-mentioned players have over Ross:-

Speed of thought/Vision - ability to recognize where the next pass should go before taking possession, one touch passing.
Winning mentality - playing to the best of your ability against top opposition.
Ball protection - shield the ball when in possession and rarely give it away in dangerous areas.
Decision making - knowing when to shoot and when to pass to a teammate in a more advantageous position.
Finding space in tight areas.

 

[beachy]

great piece @catcherintherye

Not particularly disagreeing here Dave, but for me Barkley the midfielder has been found out in the past two seasons - not that I think this is particularly Barkley's 'fault' as such.

When he first burst onto the scene (after a few cameos under Moyes) in pre-season 2013 and then obviously the following season, he was a breath of fresh air. He ran from deep, produced magic moments and scared defences.

That injury at the beginning of 2014/15 seemed to knock both is confidence and I think his pace off the mark suffered slightly as well. When he came back it was into a side playing well below their capabilities and unfortunately sides figured out a way to play against our midfield - basically, double-up on Barkley and restrict the space. Yes, he could still engineer some room with a turn of pace or bit of skill, but because of Martinez's style, the passing options when he did so were usually lateral, so there would still be nowhere to go - which is why most of our joy that season came against sides we could counter.

Start of 2015/16, Barkley took a step up. He showed real signs of not just re-finding his form, but also improving as a player. The side were also playing well going forward, which obviously helped.

But then in Feb 2016, when in fairness the whole team dipped, Ross just looked devoid of confidence. Martinez's system - by the end - wasn't getting the best out of anyone, but in Ross's case I think he actually took a step back.

So, pre-season this year, he looked sharp. Same with Deulofeu.

But for whatever reason, neither clicked in the first half of the campaign, with Barkley failing to cement any authority on games when played in the middle.

Ross's first 'really good' game this season IMO was Arsenal at home. He played left central midfield in a 4-1-4-1, but when we were on the attack he almost played as an inside forward.

This is the point for me that Koeman realised that Barkley would be more effective in that role, rather than in central midfield.

When he plays centrally, if the movement ahead of him is poor (which let's face it, it often is - which is why losing Bolasie was such a shame as his movement is very good and his pace helps as well) he tends to dally in possession, and I don't think he possesses the tools that Koeman likes in a midfielder. Energy to get up and down, aggressive but smart in the tackle and in possession.

Ross is a risk taker, which is what makes him the player he is and could still become, but Koeman's system relies upon having those players operating in the final third.

For me, Ross has taken another step in the back half of the season because of that tactical switch. Maybe it was necessity, or maybe Koeman happened upon it, but either way it's improved him as a player - and Ross has obviously done well to adapt to it.

We are keen to keep Ross but, as Catcher said, he may not be the key player we all thought he was or would be. Looking at Koeman's S'ton side as an example, I can't think of one 'stand-out' player that they could not win a game without for example. Cogs in a wheel.

Zidane ended up playing as a left side playmaker, so if its good enough for him its good enough for Barkley.

(Although Ross maybe better on the right. How about that cross to Lukaku a few weeks back?)

I agree he struggles a bit in the congested central areas. His best performances have come when his starting position was out wide. He can still cut in and affect the play but just has a bit more time and space. Playmakers dont have to be central.