Ronald Koeman discussion

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But OK
 
blupedro said:
Change the year Dave - as originally claimed
https://www.premierleague.com/stats/top/clubs/total_long_balls?se=42
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Most embarrassing long ball stat (for those that like them to use as weaponry in support of Koeman) is that he now has us as 3rd highest proponent of long balls while his old club Southampton now are 17th least likely to use the tactic.

I think the stats game is a load of bollocks tbh, but for those that insist on using them that's a bit toe curling.
 
davek said:
Koeman hasn't faced any obstacles yet. He hasn't had to as you get the first season as a free pass unless it's a disaster. The first season for me is important in determining what sort of style and system the new man brings. On that score it has until very recently been concerning. To say that it looked like a car crash is to underplay it.

As said, I'm still not sure how it'll turn out. He's started off very direct and that's the way three of his four major signings look like it will be permanently heading. Presently we play with a lot more control and it's paying off. But I'm unsure it'll be the way he wants to set up next season.
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I don't get it. Our style of play is put us in 7th. Koeman's style of play put him above Everton the two prior years. It looked like a car crash? Then what did our style of play look like under Roberto?

Having an identy as a club is important, but it's pretty obvious that good managers need to adjust the way the team plays based on the opponent. I think it's also obvious that Koeman has done that. I also think it's ridiculous not to judge a manager based on his first season. Of course he's not going to have brought in his players, yet. But laying down standards and creating an environment that will get the best out of the players he's got is important, as is moving out the players that don't meet those standards ASAP. That's WAY more important than establish a style of play, which is going to change depending on the players the manager acquires in the future.
 

CRIMHEAD said:
I don't get it. Our style of play is put us in 7th. Koeman's style of play put him above Everton the two prior years. It looked like a car crash? Then what did our style of play look like under Roberto?

Having an identy as a club is important, but it's pretty obvious that good managers need to adjust the way the team plays based on the opponent. I think it's also obvious that Koeman has done that. I also think it's ridiculous not to judge a manager based on his first season. Of course he's not going to have brought in his players, yet. But laying down standards and creating an environment that will get the best out of the players he's got is important, as is moving out the players that don't meet those standards ASAP. That's WAY more important than establish a style of play, which is going to change depending on the players the manager acquires in the future.
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It's simple for me mate: results wise this has been a very decent first season. Performance wise it's been a confusing mixed bag of styles and tactics.

As said, I think that gets ironed out next season, I'm just concerned it'll get resolved in a style direction I personally can't stick.
 
davek said:
It's simple for me mate: results wise this has been a very decent first season. Performance wise it's been a confusing mixed bag of styles and tactics.

As said, I think that gets ironed out next season, I'm just concerned it'll get resolved in a style direction I personally can't stick.
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Fair response and it makes sense and is consistent with your skeptical attitude on Koeman. I would be more concerned if he didn't have a body of work already in the same league with a side that doesn't have half the prestige and brand as Everton.

And wouldn't having a bunch of players he didn't pick almost DEMAND more variety in styles and tactics? I guess I somewhat expect a first year manager to do quite a bit of this type of work.
 
davek said:
Most embarrassing long ball stat (for those that like them to use as weaponry in support of Koeman) is that he now has us as 3rd highest proponent of long balls while his old club Southampton now are 17th least likely to use the tactic.

I think the stats game is a load of bollocks tbh, but for those that insist on using them that's a bit toe curling.
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Meh - stats are just tools, it's the analysis/interpretation that matters.

My beautiful, slender toes extend gracefully towards the glorious blue sky.
 
davek said:
It's simple for me mate: results wise this has been a very decent first season. Performance wise it's been a confusing mixed bag of styles and tactics.

As said, I think that gets ironed out next season, I'm just concerned it'll get resolved in a style direction I personally can't stick.
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Understand your concerns mate. The football from October to early December was truly horrendous. Think it was more a case of low confidence and Koeman having little faith in some players. Now that the dust has settled and confidence is up I believe we'll always see the team trying to get the ball down and play first. I think Koeman's inclined to mix it up a bit more which I'm okay with as long as on the deck and constructing moves is our bread and butter. Like you say though, we won't really know until we see what players come in next summer, but whereas your gut is saying more direct, I think we'll look to improve the midfield for a more passing game .
 
I think all in here can agree that the 1st season performance for a new manager can provide something of an 'outlier' as regards continued future performance/results
I retain guarded optimism for the future with RK. I say "guarded" because I, like most Evertonians, have been badly let down by 'false dawns' before .
 

davek said:
Most embarrassing long ball stat (for those that like them to use as weaponry in support of Koeman) is that he now has us as 3rd highest proponent of long balls while his old club Southampton now are 17th least likely to use the tactic.

I think the stats game is a load of bollocks tbh, but for those that insist on using them that's a bit toe curling.
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Prefer the games won statistic myself.
 
davek said:
It's simple for me mate: results wise this has been a very decent first season. Performance wise it's been a confusing mixed bag of styles and tactics.

As said, I think that gets ironed out next season, I'm just concerned it'll get resolved in a style direction I personally can't stick.
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I would expect tactics to be flexible though no?
I think you mean "Style wise" to want to play football on the deck with movement and pace.
 
No manager in the world would have walked into the Everton job at the start of the season and been perfect in the first six months. The team was shot after the failings of the previous management. We flew out the traps and this probably hid the teams fragility to an extent.
Inevitably that fragility came to the fore once the honeymoon period was over. What cannot be denied is that Koeman fixed a lot of those problems by taking tough decisions. He spelt it out publicly that things needed to be done, needed to change. He fired a warning shot at those on the EFC payroll that either you get with the program or GTFO.
Should he have been so public at the time? I think it was the only way some were going to realise he was serious. Ross in particular needed a wake up call. This squad needed to take its medicine so to speak.
He banged on from day one about fitness and intensity. The work on the training ground, the man management, the culling of deadwood and the clever signings have made us stronger and reversed a trend that was secretly having many of us ponder relegation last season.
We are talking about top 4. Even though the odds of that happening this season are stacked against us, we are in the conversation.
I trust he will further improve us this season.
 
CrustySack said:
No manager in the world would have walked into the Everton job at the start of the season and been perfect in the first six months. The team was shot after the failings of the previous management. We flew out the traps and this probably hid the teams fragility to an extent.
Inevitably that fragility came to the fore once the honeymoon period was over. What cannot be denied is that Koeman fixed a lot of those problems by taking tough decisions. He spelt it out publicly that things needed to be done, needed to change. He fired a warning shot at those on the EFC payroll that either you get with the program or GTFO.
Should he have been so public at the time? I think it was the only way some were going to realise he was serious. Ross in particular needed a wake up call. This squad needed to take its medicine so to speak.
He banged on from day one about fitness and intensity. The work on the training ground, the man management, the culling of deadwood and the clever signings have made us stronger and reversed a trend that was secretly having many of us ponder relegation last season.
We are talking about top 4. Even though the odds of that happening this season are stacked against us, we are in the conversation.
I trust he will further improve us this season.
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Good post CrustySack...you've articulated what the vast majority of Evertonians feel.
 

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