Ronald Koeman discussion

[degsy]

Stop talking up the 'top six' like it;s some sort of unbridgeable divide that we cant measure a manager's worth by getting in amongst. FFS the last two managers did it with ease, so why cant this one be judged on it?

Sorry, that sort of free pass isn't get stamped through.

Short Version; It was a bit easier then.

tbf, when Moyes got 4th (a fluke of Leicester proportions IMO) it was with the rs going all the way in the CL...early on when he was hitting 5th & 6th there were only a big 4. Then when City made it a top 5, somebody had to have a poor season, for us to be in with a chance.
When Martinez got 5th and 72pts, it flattered to deceive, we were so far off 4th as to make 5th and the 72pts irrelevant...9Pts(?)

Now we have a 'real' top 6, not a top 4. It doesn't matter who our rivals for 5th/6th are, until we get into those top positions on a regular basis.
Our 'rival' is WBA
Our 1st 'aim' is to leave them behind, then catch Untd, then City, then...

I wasn't too Impressed at the start, but Koeman 'seems' - by good luck or good judgement, to be getting a bit of a handle on things...but it's early days yet to say Yay or Nay.

 

[davek]

I think that's reasonable comment. I haven't been impressed with him so far and think he's limited as a manager. However he's picked up recently after finally settling on a formation which suits the players we have. My biggest gripe has been the football we've been playing and the lack of involvement/intergration of younger players in the squad. Both have picked up recently and he's got the tactics & formation spot on in the last 2 games. I hope he continues like this and brings in a couple more of the youngsters. Because you can't have enough boss young scousers in the team!

We have players who, when the heat is off, start to relax and play better. They have previous doing this and my suspicion is that's what we're seeing presently. It's no coincidence the better form dates from a period we went crashing out the cup in our last meaningful competitive game.

We know they can play (it's why I've been going ballistic all season that Koeman has sought not to use those skills), but, equally, we know they are, as a group, bottlers.

For that reason the mini upturn in the season over the course of this month cant really be taken at face value.

First half of next season we'll see what's what with the team and the manager...when matches get real again with real pressures and have real meaning.

 

[degsy]

Or hard work, high standards, accepting nothing but the best from both the players and the board. Shipping out the mediocre dead wood and bad attitudes. Bringing in quality etc etc

that's what I said - bit of a handle on it.

 

[davek]

Agree Dave. 7th is par for the course and if we achieve that and no more then it's in no way a ringing endorsement of what's going on on the pitch

Sick of hearing about a top 6 like its some citadel that cant be breached by Everton. Bollocks to that. We need to be smashing right through that and into 5th at least. Anyone who tries to argue its out of reach needs picking up on.

 

[Bubba]

Sick of hearing about a top 6 like its some citadel that cant be breached by Everton. Bollocks to that. We need to be smashing right through that and into 5th at least. Anyone who tries to argue its out of reach needs picking up on.

Who out of Spurs,Arsenal,Utd,City,Chelsea do you see us kicking out of the top 5

 

[davek]

Short Version; It was a bit easier then.

tbf, when Moyes got 4th (a fluke of Leicester proportions IMO) it was with the rs going all the way in the CL...early on when he was hitting 5th & 6th there were only a big 4. Then when City made it a top 5, somebody had to have a poor season, for us to be in with a chance.
When Martinez got 5th and 72pts, it flattered to deceive, we were so far off 4th as to make 5th and the 72pts irrelevant...9Pts(?)

Now we have a 'real' top 6, not a top 4. It doesn't matter who our rivals for 5th/6th are, until we get into those top positions on a regular basis.
Our 'rival' is WBA
Our 1st 'aim' is to leave them behind, then catch Untd, then City, then...

I wasn't too Impressed at the start, but Koeman 'seems' - by good luck or good judgement, to be getting a bit of a handle on things...but it's early days yet to say Yay or Nay.

7 points.

Hold on, the thrust of your post underlines that our opponents are more numerous and stronger than before...but haven't we just got a billionaire in who will hand us more cash to make purchases we couldn't under Moyes and even Martinez? That's a two way street you've gone down there.

Never will I accept that there's six teams in this league we should see as out of reach or even 'tough' to pass by. They really aren't that good all at the same time. The evidence of previous seasons tells you that.

So, nah, there is no substantial extra challenging facing Koeman that the previous two didn't face...and face up to and deal with. And Koeman will have his feet held to the fire on that too.

 

[Rook]

I like Klopp tbh, as much as would prefer to hate him obviously, I just can't.

He's a good manager, but I still question his temperament, it'll be interesting to see how he reacts when you have a bad spell, as he's a meltdown waiting to happen imo.

It went bad at Dortmund quick and a lot worse than it went bad under Martinez here. I think he's a good manager (talent wise its probably the weakest squad of the current top 6) but he may only have a 2-3 year shelf life at most places.

 

[banno]

We have players who, when the heat is off, start to relax and play better. They have previous doing this and my suspicion is that's what we're seeing presently. It's no coincidence the better form dates from a period we went crashing out the cup in our last meaningful competitive game.

We know they can play (it's why I've been going ballistic all season that Koeman has sought not to use those skills), but, equally, we know they are, as a group, bottlers.

For that reason the mini upturn in the season over the course of this month cant really be taken at face value.

First half of next season we'll see what's what with the team and the manager...when matches get real again with real pressures and have real meaning.

I have to disagree with the players relaxing. No way would Koeman allow that especially when the players are actually playing for there future here. Apart from Lukaku I am not sure if any player is safe enough to be able to relax and put his slippers on. Koeman will be pushing and pushing them regardless of the exit from the FA Cup. Now is the time to gel and get a good run going till the end of the season and get confidence and spirits up so its taken into next season. Looking at the celebrations over the previous couple of games I think the players are enjoying the winning and want more of it. No relaxing or holidaying until the summer for them.

 

[davek]

Who out of Spurs,Arsenal,Utd,City,Chelsea do you see us kicking out of the top 5

The first three are all vulnerable.

I cant even believe anyone is making a serious claim that we have to judge coming 7th in a race for 4/5 places as acceptable.

This is Everton not Burnley or Stoke. We've been there and done it....and it better get done again soon.

 

[davek]

I have to disagree with the players relaxing. No way would Koeman allow that especially when the players are actually playing for there future here. Apart from Lukaku I am not sure if any player is safe enough to be able to relax and put his slippers on. Koeman will be pushing and pushing them regardless of the exit from the FA Cup. Now is the time to gel and get a good run going till the end of the season and get confidence and spirits up so its taken into next season. Looking at the celebrations over the previous couple of games I think the players are enjoying the winning and want more of it. No relaxing or holidaying until the summer for them.

Not relaxing to skive off, relaxing into their game with zero competitive pressure on.

 

[Bubba]

The first three are all vulnerable.

I cant even believe anyone is making a serious claim that we have to judge coming 7th in a race for 4/5 places as acceptable.

This is Everton not Burnley or Stoke. We've been there and done it....and it better get done again soon.

Spurs are Vulnerable?

 

[banno]

Not relaxing to skive off, relaxing into their game with zero competitive pressure on.

It could be relaxing into a system they are comfortable with or relaxing because they now have got to grips with what koeman expects there job to be. We just don't know.

 

[Harryflashman]

Honestly I mean what's the point

 

[blue to the bone]

Who ??

The forums biggest moaner

 

[Mikeonlythebestwilldo]

The forums biggest moaner

Yep