Donovans experience of the Prem. Realistic or not?

[bluebastardo]

I've kept this seperately from the main Donovan thread, as it's not really connected with that thread as such, and would be a little off topic if mixed.

Regarding Donovans experience of the Premiership.

He had his debut against Arsenal, and joined what would be considered an Everton team in good form.

The matches he has played for us are as follows:

Arsenal
Man City
Birmingham
Sunderland
Wigan
Liverpool
Chelsea
Sporting
Man United
Sporting
Tottenham
Hull
And possibly Birmingham again.

With the exception of Villa, he has experienced playing for Everton against the cream of English football, and a very famous Portugese side.

Life for Donovan (football wise) will have been very exciting during his stay with us, especially as we have been playing well, and had good results against the big sides.

We've topped the form table too, and played good football.

1. Do you think he has had a realistic experience of life with Everton?
With the exception of Liverpool, who beat us because we didn't turn up, and that can be said for Sporting too, the top sides normally beat us, and have been known to beat us quite heavily in the process. Our results against these teams weren't typical, nor predicted, so has he seen only the highs in the Prem, and not the lows, like when Arsenal beat us 6-1 on the opening day?

2. Do you think he has had a realistic experience of life in the Premiership?
His matches happened to coincide with a run of fixtures against the best sides. Would he have enjoyed his experience so much had his fixture list not included such mouth watering fixtures, and instead consisted of matches against the much more mediocre sides in the division? And what if we had not been in Europe?

3. Would he be wanting to extend his loan had we been beaten in most matches, and in poor form?
It's no secret that Moyes has broken his curse a few times against the top sides this year. Historically, they smash us all over the place. Had this happened, would he be so keen to stay?

4. Has he been a major impact, and the reason for such a good spell?
What difference do you think he has made to our teams performances during these matches? Would we have still gained such good results without him?

5. Are we genuinely turning the corner, or have we just been fortunate this time round?
Are we seeing the start of a new era for Everton? A team no longer willing to lie down for the top 4, or was this just a fluke, and we should expect normal services to resume next season against them?
The top 4 teams have been off colour this season. Will they return to domination or have the underdogs finally caught up, and given the bullies a black eye they won't forget in a hurry?

 

[Columbia6]

I think he's seen both sides of the coin, and has had a realistic experience. The week against Sporting and Spurs saw to that. Yes, we've had much more good form than bad while he's been here, but I think having good form most of the time is not unusual for the club.

5. Are we genuinely turning the corner, or have we just been fortunate this time round?
Are we seeing the start of a new era for Everton?

I have thought for a few weeks now, and have said as much on other forums, that signing Donovan could very well herald a new era for this club. We have been very, very close for a number of years now, but we have always needed some little extra thing to crack the glass ceiling, and I think Donovan would be just the ticket.

 

[Muggins]

I've kept this seperately from the main Donovan thread, as it's not really connected with that thread as such, and would be a little off topic if mixed.

Regarding Donovans experience of the Premiership.

He had his debut against Arsenal, and joined what would be considered an Everton team in good form.

The matches he has played for us are as follows:

Arsenal
Man City
Birmingham
Sunderland
Wigan
Liverpool
Chelsea
Sporting
Man United
Sporting
Tottenham
Hull
And possibly Birmingham again.

With the exception of Villa, he has experienced playing for Everton against the cream of English football, and a very famous Portugese side.

Life for Donovan (football wise) will have been very exciting during his stay with us, especially as we have been playing well, and had good results against the big sides.

We've topped the form table too, and played good football.

1. Do you think he has had a realistic experience of life with Everton?
With the exception of Liverpool, who beat us because we didn't turn up, and that can be said for Sporting too, the top sides normally beat us, and have been known to beat us quite heavily in the process. Our results against these teams weren't typical, nor predicted, so has he seen only the highs in the Prem, and not the lows, like when Arsenal beat us 6-1 on the opening day?

2. Do you think he has had a realistic experience of life in the Premiership?
His matches happened to coincide with a run of fixtures against the best sides. Would he have enjoyed his experience so much had his fixture list not included such mouth watering fixtures, and instead consisted of matches against the much more mediocre sides in the division? And what if we had not been in Europe?

3. Would he be wanting to extend his loan had we been beaten in most matches, and in poor form?
It's no secret that Moyes has broken his curse a few times against the top sides this year. Historically, they smash us all over the place. Had this happened, would he be so keen to stay?

4. Has he been a major impact, and the reason for such a good spell?
What difference do you think he has made to our teams performances during these matches? Would we have still gained such good results without him?

5. Are we genuinely turning the corner, or have we just been fortunate this time round?
Are we seeing the start of a new era for Everton? A team no longer willing to lie down for the top 4, or was this just a fluke, and we should expect normal services to resume next season against them?
The top 4 teams have been off colour this season. Will they return to domination or have the underdogs finally caught up, and given the bullies a black eye they won't forget in a hurry?

Some good points Blue.

1. If i am honest i couldn't tell you what the real Everton are like. We are so up/down. I think the fans reception and general acceptance is what life is like at Everton. If a player shows heart and fights then we will always welcome them.

2. I think the premier league is changing all the time, every season things change, so i suppose you could question how he would of done a few years ago, but at the moment he has experienced what the premier league is about. We are not champions every year so to get the results we did he had to work hard and play hard. I do think though that some of the undesirable fixtures are the most important and titles/european places have been won and lost on these, which is something he may not have quite experienced.

3. Very good question mate. I think if we had been really poor he may still of wanted to extend his loan as the fans warm to him and he needs to keep playing at a fast paced high level if he still fancies attending the world cup.

4. I wouldn't say Donovan was the only reason we played well. But i think the combination of aquiring his talents and getting quality players back from injury worked a treat. So yes he is partly responsible.

5. Only time will tell if we can keep playing well. I'm 25 years old and have been going to games all my life and have not seen an Everton side with this much talent in so many areas for years. I think keeping Everyone fit will help show what we can really achieve.

cheers mate.

 

[Messner]

I've kept this seperately from the main Donovan thread, as it's not really connected with that thread as such, and would be a little off topic if mixed.

Regarding Donovans experience of the Premiership.

He had his debut against Arsenal, and joined what would be considered an Everton team in good form.

The matches he has played for us are as follows:

Arsenal
Man City
Birmingham
Sunderland
Wigan
Liverpool
Chelsea
Sporting
Man United
Sporting
Tottenham
Hull
And possibly Birmingham again.

With the exception of Villa, he has experienced playing for Everton against the cream of English football, and a very famous Portugese side.

Life for Donovan (football wise) will have been very exciting during his stay with us, especially as we have been playing well, and had good results against the big sides.

We've topped the form table too, and played good football.

Great Post

1. Do you think he has had a realistic experience of life with Everton?
With the exception of Liverpool, who beat us because we didn't turn up, and that can be said for Sporting too, the top sides normally beat us, and have been known to beat us quite heavily in the process. Our results against these teams weren't typical, nor predicted, so has he seen only the highs in the Prem, and not the lows, like when Arsenal beat us 6-1 on the opening day?

>>I think he has experienced some lows, such as getting beat away to >>Spurs, and missing an easy chance. In somewhat embarassing >>circumstances

2. Do you think he has had a realistic experience of life in the Premiership?
His matches happened to coincide with a run of fixtures against the best sides. Would he have enjoyed his experience so much had his fixture list not included such mouth watering fixtures, and instead consisted of matches against the much more mediocre sides in the division? And what if we had not been in Europe?

>>I think that there's a whole lot more to the "Everton experience" >>than just playing the matches, theres the crack in training, and in >>the dressing room. There's also the social side of the club,
>>(something that we know very little about) But the fixture list >>of "glam games" certainly helped in his overall experience


3. Would he be wanting to extend his loan had we been beaten in most matches, and in poor form?
It's no secret that Moyes has broken his curse a few times against the top sides this year. Historically, they smash us all over the place. Had this happened, would he be so keen to stay?

>>Good point. However it's something we can only speculate on, If it >>was me, and I moved to a temp job in a foreign country, and the job >>turned out to be [Poor language removed], then I reckon I would want to go home, >>especially if I lived in LA!

4. Has he been a major impact, and the reason for such a good spell?
What difference do you think he has made to our teams performances during these matches? Would we have still gained such good results without him?

>>I believe that he adds a natural balance to the side operating in an >>attacking wide right position, he is a very intelligent footballer, with >>bags of experience. Its a classic case of the chicken or the egg, >>what came first, Donovan or our change in fortunes...I think his >>arrival co-incided with Artetas return which gave everyone a boost, >>Pienaar's return to form, and of course finally the return of Jags, so I >>think he definately added to the cocktail, rather than being the main >>ingredient

5. Are we genuinely turning the corner, or have we just been fortunate this time round?
Are we seeing the start of a new era for Everton? A team no longer willing to lie down for the top 4, or was this just a fluke, and we should expect normal services to resume next season against them?
The top 4 teams have been off colour this season. Will they return to domination or have the underdogs finally caught up, and given the bullies a black eye they won't forget in a hurry?

>>On our day we can beat anybody we have proved that this season >>against Chelsea, Man City, Man U, and we deserved to beat Arsenal >>at the Emirates. So our game is there, its now a matter of >>consistency, which I believe is a mental attribute that we need to >>develop/be coached.

>>I think that along with us, City, Villa, and Spurs will continue to push >>the RS/Arsenal for that elusive top 4 finish. It will become a little >>mini-league in itself, and it can only be good for the game in general

 

[mtnkill]

I
1. Do you think he has had a realistic experience of life with Everton?

2. Do you think he has had a realistic experience of life in the Premiership?

3. Would he be wanting to extend his loan had we been beaten in most matches, and in poor form?

4. Has he been a major impact, and the reason for such a good spell?

5. Are we genuinely turning the corner, or have we just been fortunate this time round?

Interesting questions, but I think for most of these, you can remove Donovan from the equation and ask essentially the same question in the context of the run of form we've been on. I voted 'Yes', but here is my take on the individual questions:

1. Yes, I think so, as he's seen both the highs (trouncing ManU) and the lows (losing to the RS, spanked by Sporting). He may not have had to travel on a rainy night to Carlisle for a Cup tie, but he's a pro, and knows not everything is prawn sandwiches.

2. Yes, see my answer to #1. Not only has he played ManU/Chelsea/Arsenal/Reds, etc., but Hull, and seen Sund./Wigan, as well. He's seen the creme-de-la-creme and the relegation fodder.

3. Yes, as he was taken to immediately by both the players and fans. If he had a different reception, or not been given a shot to show what he can do for the team, clearly he'd be less likely, but generally the blue faithful will welcome and respect someone who works hard for their team and leaves it all on the field, and that is what Donovan does.

4. I do think he's been a major factor, but not the reason. I think he has added a dimension to the team that they have not had for a while, and has forced other teams to play us a bit differently. I think there are other factors as well (Arteta coming back into the fold, overall form of other players like LB, Ossie, Pienaar, Saha, Heitinga, etc.), but Donovan can claim a part of the revival.

5. I think we are turning the corner in some aspects of our game. Under Moyes we've almost always been considered a top-half team. We've always put on our boots, bled on the field, and tried to make life miserable for our opponents. That certainly has not changed. What we are seeing is a better fluidity to our game, more versatility, more technique, and more flair, along with a bigger willingness to take the game to our opponents rather than bunkering and attacking in phases, particularly against top-end competition.

 

[bluebastardo]

Some good replies.

I notice the vote is 8 yes and 1 no.

Any chance of the 'no' voter chiming in?

 

[ChicagoToffee]

It ain't me but good thread, BB.

He's definitely seen the rosy side of Everton during his loan. Maybe it's a sign of things to come or maybe just catching Everton at the right time. One things for certain, he's taken a great shine to Everton and vice versa - seems too good to be true.

 

[MLS is not quite EPL]

Good thread.

Yes to 1 and 2 - and frankly i don't see how anyone could argue that. He stayed with you guys for several months, even participated in an out-of-league match. During his time with you he played the likes of Arsenal, Man U, Chelsea, while also playing Sunderland and Hull.

for 3 - that's really tough to say. obviously wins make people happy, but he'd still be getting experience playing in the EPL for your side - realize he had agreed to this loan before he knew how the experience would pan out. that's a leap of faith (somewhat), but he understands the bigger goal here - readiness for the WC and playing on a bigger stage. Those two things would hold true regardless of your team's form.

4 - He's been a contributing factor, but not the reason. I think Moyes has finally put together a squad with enough depth, that you can miss guys like Cahill & Fellaini and still get 3 points - that's huge. I will say that i think Donovan's presence has seemed to lift the team up a bit, emotionally. They seem to have more "fight", although in fairness this all coincides with the "run" and good form. Surely Donovan has been a part of that.

5 - I think depth is finally on your side. If you beat a top-4 team once, yeah it could have been a fluke match. When you're consistently beating top teams and are in a form like this, you really ARE one of the best.

PS - all you EPL lads wonder why on earth we have a playoff system in the 'states..... well see how everton is playing now? now you know why we have playoffs. If the EPL had playoffs, you'd have an opportunity to play for the Cup with the form you're in now, FYI.

 

[westcoast ape]

A bit tongue in cheek, but I've got to ask if you guys have seen the "real MLS" and "the real Galaxy". Just being surrounded by talented and committed players and staff must be making a tremendous difference to Donovan. Especially in the middle of the season - summertime - many MLS games are an uninspiring slog. So even playing against teams like Hull is probably a joy for Donovan. Anyway, it's not the opponent that matters as much as the team he's playing for.

Even though the Galaxy made the final last season, they still were not a very good team - they just locked it up in defense. For two or three seasons prior the fans could easily see how frustrating life was for Donovan on the pitch - which is a statement about his professionalism and effort, because it is hard to see how he kept it going for a really terrible team. (In case you don't know, the salary cap in the US is about $2.3M; Beckham and Donovan counted for just over 1/3 of that total, so the entire rest of the team combined was paid about $1.5M, meaning we had some poor performers at almost every position).

I don't feel qualified to answer most of these questions, but I think you have a good insight. I think Donovan has made a difference to the team. Even when he hasn't made tremendous plays, his speed is at least threatening and your opponents must account for that. Not too many left backs have been able to support attacks against Everton since he's been there.

That said, even though Everton has had a comparatively good run of form, I don't think that is entirely out of character for them. They are a good team, and seem to perennially be in the position they find themselves in now. Close, and hoping for more.

 

[MLS is not quite EPL]

Good, unbiased analysis of the Galaxy and that situation, ape

 

[dabes2]

1. No
2. No
3. Yes: You obviously haven't seen a midsummer match in front of 8,000 in a 60,000 seat stadium played on astroturf in New England.
4. Very positive impact. I think he's added a point or two at the very least but of course that's a silly way to view it because it's a team game and very difficult to assess contributions of a single player.
5. I don't think a team with Everton's finances can compete at the top echelon consistently. Hate to say it, but the depth to compete in multiple competitions and get through the injuries isn't going to be there. That said, these have not been ordinary or lucky performances. It looks like a special group coming together. So, I think Everton could see something special in 2011/12, but I'm not sure they can sustain it for the long term.

 

[MLS is not quite EPL]

1. No
2. No

Tell me more

 

[bluebastardo]

Tell me more

I was hoping for a little more myself.

 

[dabes2]

Tell me more

Posted via Mobile Device

1. how many everton guys have had the opportunity to tear Chelsea, ManU, Mancity, and Arsenal (80+ at least) new ass holes in only 10 weeks. And he got to play in europe and in a liverpool derby too. I just think he got to play in quite a few glamour games quickly. He's still running on adreneline.

2. Maybe unfair to say it would have been worse, but certainly different and less romantic.

I do think answering this question is a little bit of a trap. I think landon might like the "real" everton even more. Because he would really have the chance to bond with his teammates and the fans. You can tell he's pretty shocked to have been so welcomed so quickly. And that's because he apreciates it so much after his experiences in germany.

 

[chicoazul]

He would experience the real Everton when were two nil down to Villa in the pouring rain in December and he's getting booed.