Ronald Koeman discussion

[davek]

You know while the quality of some of those players listed is questionable that's subjective. What isn't subjective is that the blend of players , or the chemistry if you like, is woeful. It became critically apparent last season and is our major problem this season. We need to build a team again , a team and squad who can operate together in defence and attack,you know like proper teams. Koeman inherited an awful mess of an unbalanced badly drilled team , it takes time to correct 3 seasons of mis-management . Still half a season in and 7th ain't bad.

We needed ONE THING: a defence that were disciplined enough to defend.

What we didn't need is a dramatic change in style of play with the players we have. But that's what Dutch Pulis has handed us.

 

[brieverton]

We can debate whether the squad is as poor as some folk think it is, or not, but surely its down to a combination of factors.

The aging renmants of the Moyes era, an aged Barry, poor recruitment by Martinez, and lack of investment generally (and particularly in the last two years of Martinez, to pay for Lukaku) have all contributed to where we are now.

That's where the problems lie. Then, it's a case of what Koeman and Walsh are doing to rectify it. And they clearly need more time on that score.

I will say that Koeman needs to be bolder with selecting Davies and Holgate, shipping out Jags and others, and letting Barry out to pasture. In addition, he has thus so far failed to set us up in a way that maximises the advantage of having Lukaku in the team - something we very sadly have not been able to capitalise on for 2 1/2 years. He has also recognised the limitations of his honesty and forthrightness, whilst that was refreshing to begin with, calling out Barkley in public amongst other things has proven to be not the best policy.

 

[Eggsyblueskin]

You forgot to add Niasse, Alcaraz and Kone to the list lol

And McGeady why does everyone always forget.............oh!!

 

[davek]

That's where the problems lie. Then, it's a case of what Koeman and Walsh are doing to rectify it. And they clearly need more time on that score.

I will say that Koeman needs to be bolder with selecting Davies and Holgate, shipping out Jags and others, and letting Barry out to pasture. In addition, he has thus so far failed to set us up in a way that maximises the advantage of having Lukaku in the team - something we very sadly have not been able to capitalise on for 2 1/2 years. He has also recognised the limitations of his honesty and forthrightness, whilst that was refreshing to begin with, calling out Barkley in public amongst other things has proven to be not the best policy.

You must be kidding mate. How on earth do you think Lukaku scored all those goals in his time here under Martinez? The whole team was designed to service Lukaku. We played with pace on the counter at every opportunity and got a lot of numbers around Lukaku to give him every available opportunity to be put in for a goal.

EDIT: sorry mate. Reread that and got your point.

 

[ianefc]

Lol. Yeah mate...

Richard Wright
Li Tie
McFadden
Beattie
Plessis
Simon Davies
Kroldrup
Bilyaletdinov
Nuno Valente
Van der Meyde
Scott Spencer
Anderson Da Silva
Jutkiewizc
Dan Gosling
Jacobsen
Castillo
Garbutt
Joao Silva
Mageye Gueye
Vellios
Gibson
Hahnemann
Jelavic
Naismith


...absolute top draw purchases.

FFS.

What has that got to do with what I said?

 

[davek]

What has that got to do with what I said?

Moyes got purchases on the cheap that were quality. Many of his other signings though were tripe. Just about what can be said about Martinez.

That's the point.

 

[ianefc]

Moyes got purchases on the cheap that were quality. Many of his other signings though were tripe. Just about what can be said about Martinez.

That's the point.

Still, that had nothing to do with what I said. I'm not trying to pass Moyes bad signings off as good ones.

Be interesting to know how much that list of Moyes' signings cost in total.

 

[Eggsyblueskin]

We needed ONE THING: a defence that were disciplined enough to defend.

What we didn't need is a dramatic change in style of play with the players we have. But that's what Dutch Pulis has handed us.

Why do you always seem to imply that defence is the responsibility of solely the back four or five , that is the rank amateur airhead style of the last manager. When you are not in possession the WHOLE team has to work hard at limiting the options and trying to regain possession, not stand round waiting for an increasingly beleaguered defence to prevent a goal and regain the ball for them. It's not a new concept it's as old as the game. When we failed defensively it was the fault of the WHOLE team not just the back four. That alone needed a major fix.

 

[Eggs]

We are playing a form of football that would have any manager in a club above us sacked on the spot.

We've moved into the dark ages when you can honestly hand on heart state that Moyes would have us playing better football.

...oh Davek. I'm not defending the manager and I've been critical of how we play but we have a mid-table squad and at least we are picking up points. In the 2nd half of last season we were in free fall, RK has arrested that. It's dreadful to watch but we need significant change, at least let him bring in his own players before judging the Manager.

I'm naive and I don't know if you post just to get a response or you genuinely feel like you do.

 

[davek]

Still, that had nothing to do with what I said. I'm not trying to pass Moyes bad signings off as good ones.

Be interesting to know how much that list of Moyes' signings cost in total.

For the period they were bought: Beattie, Kroldrup, Bilyaletdinov, were big cash signings.

 

[davek]

Why do you always seem to imply that defence is the responsibility of solely the back four or five , that is the rank amateur airhead style of the last manager. When you are not in possession the WHOLE team has to work hard at limiting the options and trying to regain possession, not stand round waiting for an increasingly beleaguered defence to prevent a goal and regain the ball for them. It's not a new concept it's as old as the game. When we failed defensively it was the fault of the WHOLE team not just the back four. That alone needed a major fix.

Because we had a back four and two holding CMs that worked well in his first season (39 goals conceded). The whole team doesn't have to be pack mules to get a defensive shape to the team.

 

[ianefc]

For the period they were bought: Beattie, Kroldrup, Bilyaletdinov, were big cash signings.

I'm not defending anyone mate, just looking for consistency.

 

[chippy1722]

Moyes got purchases on the cheap that were quality. Many of his other signings though were tripe. Just about what can be said about Martinez.

That's the point.

Martinez and Koeman are operating at Man City spending level compared to Moyes, if he had the money they did he would have done even better. I must admit he was helped by the fact we were skint we didn't have the expectations we do now. Martinez's first season was probably his downfall, he exceeded his own expectations thus probably ruining whatever his initial plans were to build a team, he couldn't build slowly after that first season because of expectations. Koeman is meant to have big money to spend so he will need to make sure his signings work, and the expensive ones will need to work quickly otherwise he will probably come under more scrutiny than both the others.

 

[davek]

...oh Davek. I'm not defending the manager and I've been critical of how we play but we have a mid-table squad and at least we are picking up points. In the 2nd half of last season we were in free fall, RK has arrested that. It's dreadful to watch but we need significant change, at least let him bring in his own players before judging the Manager.

I'm naive and I don't know if you post just to get a response or you genuinely feel like you do.

The manager was brought in as a massive upgrade on what went before - someone who could get us more defensively disciplined and competitive.

Is that what you think we've got?

 

[davek]

Martinez and Koeman are operating at Man City spending level compared to Moyes, if he had the money they did he would have done even better. I must admit he was helped by the fact we were skint we didn't have the expectations we do now. Martinez's first season was probably his downfall, he exceeded his own expectations thus probably ruining whatever his initial plans were to build a team, he couldn't build slowly after that first season because of expectations. Koeman is meant to have big money to spend so he will need to make sure his signings work, and the expensive ones will need to work quickly otherwise he will probably come under more scrutiny than both the others.

Moyes' spending record should be seen in in relation to pre-2009 and post 2009. In the earliest period (which is to say the vast amount of time he was here) he enjoyed a very decent net spend. (This has been gone over in the past). Post 2009 the roof fell in and we had a fire sale - that dragged his whole net spend for the period he was here down to a couple of million on average per season.