Ronald Koeman discussion

[BlueToff]

How can you say the team set up was right tonight?

We never, ever, looked like winning the game. Seriously. We never had a proper chance in the whole game. At home. Against our biggest rivals.

If we'd drawn I'd have grudgingly accepted that we had played like a non league team in the 3rd round of the cup in order to keep our unbeaten home record, but it was no surprise we couldn't hold out for 90 minutes.

Hard work and pressing is great, but it's supposed to be a supplement to the gameplan, not the gameplan itself.

He started the same team that six days ago beat the form team in the country. So yes, I can safely say we set out right.

First half an hour, we hammered them. We were all over them. Had we had any quality in forward areas (I'm talking that final pass, that final run) we're 2 up by the 30th minute. As it was we managed one effort because our players lack the guile, craft or bloody gumption to actually have a strike.

Second half we were awful.

And no isn't. Football - in this league - is about intensity. It's about getting in their faces, winning it back and then strutting your stuff.

 

[BlueToff]

How can you say the team set up was right tonight?

We never, ever, looked like winning the game. Seriously. We never had a proper chance in the whole game. At home. Against our biggest rivals.

If we'd drawn I'd have grudgingly accepted that we had played like a non league team in the 3rd round of the cup in order to keep our unbeaten home record, but it was no surprise we couldn't hold out for 90 minutes.

Hard work and pressing is great, but it's supposed to be a supplement to the gameplan, not the gameplan itself.

He started the same team that six days ago beat the form team in the country. So yes, I can safely say we set out right.

First half an hour, we hammered them. We were all over them. Had we had any quality in forward areas (I'm talking that final pass, that final run) we're 2 up by the 30th minute. As it was we managed one effort because our players lack the guile, craft or bloody gumption to actually have a strike.

Second half we were awful.

And no isn't. Football - in this league - is about intensity. It's about getting in their faces, winning it back and then strutting your stuff.

 

[BlueToff]

Taking responsibility by setting up every game the same bar 1 and a half games and having little threat to the opposition goalkeeper

Talk is cheap

As equally as cheap as yours Chris.

He ain't going anywhere soon is he?

it's an awful run, people seem to think I'm saying we haven't been crap...

But he's gonna get the window, and the rest of the season.

We're one point behind 7th at Christmas. We all wanted to be higher - we should be aiming to be higher - but with this squad we're realistically around where we should be.

Improvement is needed - from them all, including the manager.

But a big start would be ripping the core of this side to shreds over the next two windows and starting fresh.

 

[Papa Shango]

I haven't watched it back loads, but IMO his positioning was all wrong. He was miles out but no where close to the shot. It was unfortunate with the bounce.

Not saying Stek would have definitely saved it like, and Robles made a great save from Firmino's shot.

And he was visibly urging the side to press up all the second half.

But with Barry in there, it just couldn't be done. And for all their possession, the RS still relied on a jammy deflection to get the win. It sums it up.

Robles covered it fine which is why it hit the post. The problem was our dopey defenders standing their and watching it bounce of the post and not reacting. Baines allowing Sturridge onto his stronger foot was genius too.

We all knew the goal was coming. Question is, is it down to spawn on their part or a downright loser mentality on ours?

 

[Kurt.]

The same player who RK was more than ok with selling, to be replaced by Sissoko?
That's what cost us the game?

It did tonight yes... if you can't see the difference in approach between the 2 halves then I must have watched a different game.

 

[Papa Shango]

We're one point behind 7th at Christmas. We all wanted to be higher - we should be aiming to be higher - but with this squad we're realistically around where we should be.

This bit is pretty irrelevent. We have not played well all season for a whole game. I think we are in a very false position helped by some decent results at the start of the season.

 

[EFCPaul]

RK is not a perfect manager, he has his pluses and his minuses but fact is though he'll be here for a good while yet so let him get HIS squad. I've lost my rag with him a few times the past few weeks but ultimately he didn't sign any of the awful shithouses we're lumbered with. Give him January and next summer to get his squad together and clear out the rubbish and see where we go. Hopefully significantly forward.

Safe to say this season is another write off really, barring a possible run in the FA Cup though I wouldn't hold my breath on that. This year was always going to be spent cleaning up the mess that idiot Spaniard left behind, next year is the real test of him as a manager and the club in terms of where we're going.

 

[BlueToff]

Are you kidding, Toff?

It has set us back even further than we were before Arsenal.

The feel good factor we have wallowed in since last Tuesday had totally evaporated and the doubts are back in spades.

And Christmas is ruined in my house.....my Kopite son in law is coming for Christmas dinner.....and he was there tonight

Bah rotten humbug.

The only good thing to come out of tonight's debacle is that our old friend @davek might return and regale us with his thoughts on this fiasco tomorrow

I have had to put up with Kopites as well Khal, it's crap

Christmas is overrated anyway

But yeh, let's see, ey?

First 30 minutes today, as good as we've played this season, without the end product to back it up.

Should have had the lead we deserved, but Mori misses that chance. McCarthy gets injured and this group of bottlers (and they are bottlers) dissolve as they always do, seemingly regardless of who is at the helm.

Our gameplan was clearly not to camp on the 18 yard box, but Barry's lack of energy meant that we couldn't get out like we did in the first half.

I don't blame him - it happens - but it stems from a lack of options in the squad (partly down to injuries, partly down to poor recruitment).

Koeman doesn't escape the blame. That second-half display isn't good enough, and we set the bar last week. He made a baffling sub and Ross should never be used as a No.10 again.

 

[BlueToff]

This bit is pretty irrelevent. We have not played well all season for a whole game. I think we are in a very false position helped by some decent results at the start of the season.

FFS!!!

Your position in the table CANNOT - by definition - be false.

You are where you are because of how many points you have accumulated, regardless of performances.

It's such a non-argument fgs.

There has been 11 teams that have collected less points than we have.

Bournemouth have been lauded for their displays, but they are below us, as an example.

 

[Lanolin]

He started the same team that six days ago beat the form team in the country. So yes, I can safely say we set out right.

First half an hour, we hammered them. We were all over them. Had we had any quality in forward areas (I'm talking that final pass, that final run) we're 2 up by the 30th minute. As it was we managed one effort because our players lack the guile, craft or bloody gumption to actually have a strike.

Second half we were awful.

And no isn't. Football - in this league - is about intensity. It's about getting in their faces, winning it back and then strutting your stuff.

Its not just about the team selection. It's about the actual gameplan.

You're kidding yourself if you think we hammered them for half an hour. We were on the front foot but we never looked like scoring. Not even nearly looked like scoring. We battled well, and had more of the ball for half an hour, but we never worried them once.

Despite you repeatedly saying they only won because of luck, our keepers made 2 very good saves, they had a deflection just wide and had they not scored they would still have hit the post.

The closest we came to scoring was a header from a set piece which was caught by the keeper when travelling at 2mph. You're right, it was a tactical masterpiece.

 

[BlueToff]

Robles covered it fine which is why it hit the post. The problem was our dopey defenders standing their and watching it bounce of the post and not reacting. Baines allowing Sturridge onto his stronger foot was genius too.

We all knew the goal was coming. Question is, is it down to spawn on their part or a downright loser mentality on ours?

The defending wasn't up to scratch. Everton, that.

 

[adrian]

I wasn't over enthused with Koeman when we got him, but it's foolish to write him off after 1 transfer window where we missed on alot of our targets. Should at least get time to bring players in, not be replaced by a manager who did well by solidifying us in 7 th-8th and getting no where. Moyes did a good job for many years but his time at Everton is over and he doesn't have the ability to win anything

Moyes is a better manager than koeman..regardless how long he was here before. controversial I know, but in a,years time when we are paying ronald 10 million to get rid of him before moving onto the next mercenary manager..our short sighted, bitter fans might start to agree

 

[Lanolin]

FFS!!!

Your position in the table CANNOT - by definition - be false.

You are where you are because of how many points you have accumulated, regardless of performances.

It's such a non-argument fgs.

There has been 11 teams that have collected less points than we have.

Bournemouth have been lauded for their displays, but they are below us, as an example.

I explained this to you last week. I gave you examples and everything to make it easier to understand. Your position can be false, undoubtedly. It's fairly obvious too to be brutally honest.

 

[BlueToff]

Its not just about the team selection. It's about the actual gameplan.

You're kidding yourself if you think we hammered them for half an hour. We were on the front foot but we never looked like scoring. Not even nearly looked like scoring. We battled well, and had more of the ball for half an hour, but we never worried them once.

Despite you repeatedly saying they only won because of luck, our keepers made 2 very good saves, they had a deflection just wide and had they not scored they would still have hit the post.

The closest we came to scoring was a header from a set piece which was caught by the keeper when travelling at 2mph. You're right, it was a tactical masterpiece.

I was watching the game with my RS mate. Knows his stuff, surprisingly for them.

He was hating it. He was genuinely frightened.

His exact words were to me at HT "I don't know how we got away with that."

D'you know what I told him. "We've probably run out of steam, and we're screwed (been polite here btw), if McCarthy goes off"

And not anywhere have I said it was a tactical masterpiece. We were atrocious in the second half, but equally so that's the best we've played from the off all season. Our problem was we couldn't take advantage of it. IMO that's not down to the manager, that's got to be down to the players on the pitch - as the tactics that the manager used in that first 30 minutes were working perfectly?

Their chances:

- Origi, 36 mins, drills miles wide - not clear-cut in anyway
- Firmino, 75(ish) mins, great save - again, not exactly a clear chance, just a good shot
- Mane, 96 mins, goal - the only 'clear-cut' chance

Our chances:
- Mori, 45 mins, free header, six yards out, puts it wide

Those are the chances. Forget efforts on target. They can be - as you said - a thunderbolt or a crap, looping header.

 

[nsno-chris]

As equally as cheap as yours Chris.

He ain't going anywhere soon is he?

it's an awful run, people seem to think I'm saying we haven't been crap...

But he's gonna get the window, and the rest of the season.

We're one point behind 7th at Christmas. We all wanted to be higher - we should be aiming to be higher - but with this squad we're realistically around where we should be.

Improvement is needed - from them all, including the manager.

But a big start would be ripping the core of this side to shreds over the next two windows and starting fresh.

Improvement starts with the mamager

As equally as cheap as yours Chris.

He ain't going anywhere soon is he?

it's an awful run, people seem to think I'm saying we haven't been crap...

But he's gonna get the window, and the rest of the season.

We're one point behind 7th at Christmas. We all wanted to be higher - we should be aiming to be higher - but with this squad we're realistically around where we should be.

Improvement is needed - from them all, including the manager.

But a big start would be ripping the core of this side to shreds over the next two windows and starting fresh.

We'll see what he does but if he doesn't change that game plan of hoofball then the crowd will turn. And he's just extended contract's for Barry and baines, not the best start for ripping the squad apart