Ronald Koeman discussion

[Tin-Tin]

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/dec/02/everton-improvement-ronald-koeman-manchester-united

“I still have the belief we will be successful at Everton,” he said. “Maybe we need a little more time, maybe we need to make more changes in the team, maybe we need it for next season. We know it is a new project and everybody knows that takes time. We had a good start, it is a difficult time now but that is football.”

He added: “It is always difficult when there is a lack of confidence and a lack of belief but it can be good for me to see the reaction of the team in a difficult time. It is better to see that. Of course you like to have a win every weekend because everyone is happy but sometimes, to get your eyes really open, maybe this time is the best to understand what we need to change.”

“We analyse our young players. It is about Tom Davies, it is about Kieran Dowell, Dominic Calvert-Lewin the striker, Jonjoe Kenny the right full-back.

“The under-23 competition cannot be compared to the Premier League. They train a lot of times with the first team and if there is a moment that they show they are on the level of other players in their position then I will give them the chance.

“It is also a physicality question about young players. Every day we have the contact with David Unsworth [the under-23s coach] and they need time. It is easy to say: ‘He played fantastic, he needs to play in the first team.’ No, they don’t understand the level of the Premier League and they need time. We are not playing in Holland – if so, then yes, they are ready. But ready for the Premier League? If I bring a young player in it is not for one game and then I will show the confidence in that young player. Still they are not ready.”


Just so people have all the quotes here and don't just pick out the bits that suit a narrative (on either side of the argument)

My point was towards the fact that he appears to be very unhappy with some senior players, who are ignoring/can't do what he's asking.

 

[Brennan]

Realistically the worst case scenario after this weekend is that we could be 9th, or we could very well be 6th.

Considering our performances in the league in the two seasons prior and our shocking performance in the summer transfer window I'm rather puzzled as to why everybody is fuming so much.

 

[Neiziro]

Realistically the worst case scenario after this weekend is that we could be 9th, or we could very well be 6th.

Considering our performances in the league in the two seasons prior and our shocking performance in the summer transfer window I'm rather puzzled as to why everybody is fuming so much.

Prolly cause 6th-9th isn't very good mate.

 

[Brennan]

Prolly cause 6th-9th isn't very good mate.

What would you consider good for a team that hasn't won a trophy in twenty years ?

 

[Stutheblue]

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/dec/02/everton-improvement-ronald-koeman-manchester-united

“We need at least this winter and we need next summer to make changes in this club"

But, despite a dramatic downturn since the start of the season, Koeman believes he will learn more about the squad during this period than had their encouraging early results continued. “I still have the belief we will be successful at Everton,” he said. “Maybe we need a little more time, maybe we need to make more changes in the team, maybe we need it for next season. We know it is a new project and everybody knows that takes time. We had a good start, it is a difficult time now but that is football.”

He added: “It is always difficult when there is a lack of confidence and a lack of belief but it can be good for me to see the reaction of the team in a difficult time. It is better to see that. Of course you like to have a win every weekend because everyone is happy but sometimes, to get your eyes really open, maybe this time is the best to understand what we need to change.”

Sounds like he now knows they are a bunch of work shy losers.

Trouble is, the players also know that he knows!

 

[JLW]

Prolly cause 6th-9th isn't very good mate.

Its mediocre (which is something we have been accustomed to for years) but if we are 6th and look at the teams above us then would you expect us to be above any of them with the players/managers and resources they have? I wouldn't. Hopefully a good January in the transfer market will change that.

 

[riddick]

You don't often see a lot of managers who take over a team and literally bring in their own first 11. Hell, Klopp has barely brought anyone in and they are a hell of a lot closer to the top of the league than Everton. Yet, here we are, asked for patience and 'let's get 12-15 players in and go from there'.

To me that's not exactly the mark of a good manager, that's a mark of a manager who knows how to make a system work by spending boat loads of money.



and by the by, every single one of these players should be punted. just an embarrassment..

 

[Goat]

You don't often see a lot of managers who take over a team and literally bring in their own first 11. Hell, Klopp has barely brought anyone in and they are a hell of a lot closer to the top of the league than Everton. Yet, here we are, asked for patience and 'let's get 12-15 players in and go from there'.

To me that's not exactly the mark of a good manager, that's a mark of a manager who knows how to make a system work by spending boat loads of money.



and by the by, every single one of these players should be punted. just an embarrassment..

We dont need a new team.

We need certain types of players in certain key areas, in order of priority :

A CM, somebody that drives the ball forward from midfield and has an eye for a forward pass
A ST, somebody that holds the ball up, ideally with a bit of aerial presence, comfortable in the hole and ideally leading the line
An ACM, somebody who can bridge the gap between midfield and attack and create

If we can add these 3 players to the "attacking unit" things wont look as bad and we would have options.

 

[riddick]

We dont need a new team.

We need certain types of players in certain key areas, in order of priority :

A CM, somebody that drives the ball forward from midfield and has an eye for a forward pass
A ST, somebody that holds the ball up, ideally with a bit of aerial presence, comfortable in the hole and ideally leading the line
An ACM, somebody who can bridge the gap between midfield and attack and create

If we can add these 3 players to the "attacking unit" things wont look as bad and we would have options.

of which we also have added a starting GK, a starting CB, a starting DM and a starting winger. add those in, we are up to 7. and we need ANOTHER winger who isn't absolute crap and to replace our 36 year old OTHER DM.

 

[Goat]

of which we also have added a starting GK, a starting CB, a starting DM and a starting winger. add those in, we are up to 7. and we need ANOTHER winger who isn't absolute crap and to replace our 36 year old OTHER DM.

We have an aging squad and we also have a lot of players who arent good enough, I would imagine things will change a lot over the next few windows.

 

[riddick]

We have an aging squad and we also have a lot of players who arent good enough, I would imagine things will change a lot over the next few windows.

Oh, I do not, for one minute, say we do NOT need to change the squad. I am saying it is very very rare to bring in almost a completely new 11.

He's struggling big time right now with what we have. Sort that [Poor language removed] out until January ffs!

 

[hktoffee]

Prolly cause 6th-9th isn't very good mate.

So you expect Koeman to sort everything in 6 months time with a not good enough aging squad left over by Martinez, with track records of finishing 11th/12th?

Ok just because he is earning a reported £6m a year. Mind you one Niasse wasted this football club £13.5m.

If you look at the table how can you expect this team can do better than 6th this season? Koeman does not even have a positive net spend in the summer. Please give him time to get his players in given that, if you can endure Martinez for 2 poor seasons.

 

[hktoffee]

Oh, I do not, for one minute, say we do NOT need to change the squad. I am saying it is very very rare to bring in almost a completely new 11.

He's struggling big time right now with what we have. Sort that [Poor language removed] out until January ffs!

But some people are calling his head after 13 matches. He said he needs another 2 windows to amend and bring his players in so I won't judge him at this stage.

 

[brieverton]

Since Martinez' first window, we have had some pretty nondescript ones since then and last summer was also a disappointment to many, including me.

A lack of Investment, poor signings by Martinez in the main, and the aging of Moyes' old guard have all combined and caught up with us.

I think it's right that we'll need to replace 80% of the squad within the next 3-5 windows. That is more or less a given.

It's also a period where we are likely going to need a healthy net spend. I know this tends to be a divisive topic and I agree that it's not a good indicator of progress in a single window, but over the course of several it does point to the level of ambition a club has.

I expect Lukaku to leave and perhaps even Barkley too and Ross isn't going to be the cash cow the board might have bargained for even at the start of this season.

Additionally, we are unlikely to move players like McCarthy and Cleverley on for example and replace them with signings in their positions that are good enough if we were to spend only what we recoup.

I also think it will be very difficult to move many of them on at all.

I hope Walsh proves that he remains adept with buying in Europe, as we have a pretty dreadful and limited record of buying non-domestic players in recent years. There is still greater value for money, albeit less than it was, so I hope that a lot of the scouting effort since August has been directed at Europe and elsewhere. Given our interest in Gabbiadini etc, last summer, I think it's likely it will.

 

[hktoffee]

Since Martinez' first window, we have had some pretty nondescript ones since then and last summer was also a disappointment to many, including me.

A lack of Investment, poor signings by Martinez in the main, and the aging of Moyes' old guard have all combined and caught up with us.

I think it's right that we'll need to replace 80% of the squad within the next 3-5 windows. That is more or less a given.

It's also a period where we are likely going to need a healthy net spend. I know this tends to be a divisive topic and I agree that it's not a good indicator of progress in a single window, but over the course of several it does point to the level of ambition a club has.

I expect Lukaku to leave and perhaps even Barkley too and Ross isn't going to be the cash cow the board might have bargained for even at the start of this season.

Additionally, we are unlikely to move players like McCarthy and Cleverley on for example and replace them with signings in their positions that are good enough if we were to spend only what we recoup.

I also think it will be very difficult to move many of them on at all.

I hope Walsh proves that he remains adept with buying in Europe, as we have a pretty dreadful and limited record of buying non-domestic players in recent years. There is still greater value for money, albeit less than it was, so I hope that a lot of the scouting effort since August has been directed at Europe and elsewhere. Given our interest in Gabbiadini etc, last summer, I think it's likely it will.

Pretty obvious he will leave. Would have gone to Palace if not Sissoko.