My fear going forward - what about the youth?

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The ability of the lads isn't in question here.

It's about the opportunities to showcase that ability.

I believe under RK and the current dynamics of the club, the route into the first team is going to be a lot more difficult and muddier .

RK doesn't appear to show any interest.
The new approach from the Head of Academy seems to be data driven.
We apparently have cash and there is huge pressure to buy players and rebuild the squad.

As a club we have always prided ourselves on our academy but looking from the outside it appears now that it's going to be less important in the short term future.

A complete sin if you ask me.
 

Stan Lee Park said:
Our current manager seems to have no interest in developing young players. A depressing situation in my opinion.
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Maybe one or two might get a run-in if we draw garbage in the FA cup, but with cash to spend in January, I feel as if the majority of the young players will be overlooked
 
jinkyali said:
The ability of the lads isn't in question here.

It's about the opportunities to showcase that ability.

I believe under RK and the current dynamics of the club, the route into the first team is going to be a lot more difficult and muddier .

RK doesn't appear to show any interest.
The new approach from the Head of Academy seems to be data driven.
We apparently have cash and there is huge pressure to buy players and rebuild the squad.

As a club we have always prided ourselves on our academy but looking from the outside it appears now that it's going to be less important in the short term future.

A complete sin if you ask me.
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I know we all like it when players come up through the ranks but as an approach, it's not helped us win anything.
 
Mikey_Fitzgerald said:
Here's the thing with playing young players

There was no guarantee that the Class of 92 were going to make it

None at all

People say it will never happen again, and they're right

The reason it will never happen again is not because there isn't a group of youngsters at a Premier League Club good enough to do it, but ultimately because no manager will ever have the guts and bravery to do what Ferguson did

The view of Alan Hansen was the view of the majority back in 1995 when Ferguson gave those lads a chance

But he stuck by his guns and it paid off

Scholes, Giggs, Beckham, Butt and The Nevilles would never had made it if they hadn't been given the minutes they were given when they were given them. If they'd been stuck in the same cycle as a Conor McAlney, they wouldn't have risen above it either

At some point, you just have to be brave enough to believe in the kids

I can guarantee you that if a forum like GOT was around for Man United supporters in 1995, threads would be full of angry knee jerkers following that defeat to Villa on the first day of the season demanding that Beckham, Scholes, The Nevilles and Butt not be played any more because they weren't good enough and never would be and that big money needed to be spent on proven players etc

It really says all you need to know about Ferguson's brilliance that he stuck with those players when he did, even when pundits from every corner were declaring it the death knell for his team

Just goes to show that if you really want kids to make it, you have to eventually bite the bullet and take a chance

Unfortunately, we live in such a risk averse climate these days that I just can't see it happening, and football is much worse off for it IMO
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Great post, agree with every word. There's a window when you have to push young players and give them a chance to play and improve, if you don't then they simply won't develop like they should. Fed up of seeing ordinary players like Cleverley & McCarthy given games, when there's talented youngsters who aren't getting a chance.
 
Lanolin said:
Well firstly, that's a straw man argument isn't it? I didn't say he was rubbish, I used the same criteria you did - a comparison against beckham and scholes. You won't find many football fans or coaches who think butt was a better footballer than those two, so it stands to reason that he wouldn't be talked about in the same way.

Secondly, can I respectfully suggest that when next constructing a straw man argument you at least make it a decent one? The answer to your question, you see, is a resounding no, he did not.
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Mikey_Fitzgerald said:
You're intellect is staggering

Lucky for me I'm sitting down

Phew!
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Your*

If you're gonna insult people when you've lost an argument, at least get the basics right mate.

Also, I really don't understand this fascination with the Class of 92. Football has changed monumentally. If you tried to blood 4 or 5 academy players into your first team nowadays, you're more likely to end up like Aston Villa than Man United.
 

jinkyali said:
The ability of the lads isn't in question here.

It's about the opportunities to showcase that ability.

I believe under RK and the current dynamics of the club, the route into the first team is going to be a lot more difficult and muddier .

RK doesn't appear to show any interest.
The new approach from the Head of Academy seems to be data driven.
We apparently have cash and there is huge pressure to buy players and rebuild the squad.

As a club we have always prided ourselves on our academy but looking from the outside it appears now that it's going to be less important in the short term future.

A complete sin if you ask me.
Click to expand...

The big concern is that the age group that was our bets for at least 15 years and arguably in decades are now approaching a critical moment for them. A 2-3 year regime of Koeman may mean they all look to move on. We have already lost Ledson. Davies, Dowell, Walsh & Kenny will not wait around playing reserves football for the next 2-3 years I don't think.

I thought Dowell was very good last season but I can understand why he's not included. However Davies not being included is very poor. Lads like Cleverley are not as good as him and never will be. His performance against Norwich, aside from Gueye is as good as any from any of our central midfielders in the last 6 months.
 
catcherintherye said:
The big concern is that the age group that was our bets for at least 15 years and arguably in decades are now approaching a critical moment for them. A 2-3 year regime of Koeman may mean they all look to move on. We have already lost Ledson. Davies, Dowell, Walsh & Kenny will not wait around playing reserves football for the next 2-3 years I don't think.

I thought Dowell was very good last season but I can understand why he's not included. However Davies not being included is very poor. Lads like Cleverley are not as good as him and never will be. His performance against Norwich, aside from Gueye is as good as any from any of our central midfielders in the last 6 months.
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To me, it's the price we pay for short termism, which is what most of us on here expected the Koeman appointment to be. It would have been the same if we'd had a Mourinho type as well, but he seems to leave more scorched earth behind him than someone like Koeman, so that's a positive at least. Also, if he wins us a Cup or gets us a Top 4 finish while passing through, he can leave a strong foundation for whomever takes up the reigns after he leaves

We might lose a couple of good lads in the next couple of years for the reasons you've stated, and that's going to be a shame, but not the end of the world

My hope is that we retain as many of the lads you've mentioned as we can over the next couple of seasons and then their development is made a priority by whoever Koeman's successor turns out to be

If, say, after the 2018 World Cup Joachim Loew decides he'd like to go back to club football, and Koeman does well enough with us to get an offer from another club, I really think the best option at that point would be to wish Koeman well, get Loew in and then give Loew an actual mandate from up high to really make something of the youth set up and start developing young players like he did for the German national side

With costs of a potential new stadium etc, having 3-4 kids we can plug into the main squad in the next couple of seasons could be a really valuable asset to have on the books, and I think our new manager in 2-3 years should be brought in with that in mind
 
catcherintherye said:
The big concern is that the age group that was our bets for at least 15 years and arguably in decades are now approaching a critical moment for them. A 2-3 year regime of Koeman may mean they all look to move on. We have already lost Ledson. Davies, Dowell, Walsh & Kenny will not wait around playing reserves football for the next 2-3 years I don't think.

I thought Dowell was very good last season but I can understand why he's not included. However Davies not being included is very poor. Lads like Cleverley are not as good as him and never will be. His performance against Norwich, aside from Gueye is as good as any from any of our central midfielders in the last 6 months.
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I totally understand what you're saying. It's tough to know just how good they are though.

You mention 'losing' Ledson but who to? Not one of the European elite, but Oxford United. Of course he might bounce back and make us regret it, but equally he might spend his entire career in League One. I don't really see the point in flapping until we see that we've lost out on potentially top class players through not playing them. In my time supporting Everton that has only happened once to my knowledge, with Mustafi. If players like Walsh and Kenny aren't getting a game and other premier league teams start sniffing about then i'll be worried, if they're just being chased by Wigan and Oldham then I won't worry too much.

I've said before that when I've seen Dowell playing open age football, he hasn't impressed me. That doesn't mean he won't turn out to be a Ballon d'or winner one day, but at this moment in time I have seen nothing to suggest he should be in the side. In pre season I thought he looked well below the level of Lennon and Deulofeu, and they're both struggling to get into the side as it is.
 

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