Hilary Benn Sacked From The Shadow Cabinet - wider political debate

[Toffeelover]

There are plenty of folk who felt that the IRA were freedom fighters. It's fairly commonplace to shake hands with and find common ground with people if you're going to solve a conflict.

Do you think Blair et al (and the Major government) were in the wrong for conversing with the IRA to get a ceasefire and peace deal?

If Corbyn was so friendly with them, why did he not exhort to stop killing?

The IRA were fighting for the six counties to join up with Eire but the majority of the populace did not and you call the IRA freedom fighters. Who's freedom?

 

[Pienaar's gloves]

If Corbyn was so friendly with them, why did he not exhort to stop killing?

The IRA were fighting for the six counties to join up with Eire but the majority of the populace did not and you call the IRA freedom fighters. Who's freedom?

They had many aims, not all of which were re-unification, but also for Catholics and/or Republicans not to be treated as second class citizens, particularly by the RUC. They were persecuted.

I'm sure a thread that becomes about the IRA and overly contentious will be closed, so harking back to Corbyn, he encouraged the establishment to open formal communication with them (something that they refused to do publically but were doing on the quiet). He was a constituency MP and junior activist, he wasn't in the position to exert that sort of influence.

 

[roydo]

I'm sure a thread that becomes about the IRA and overly contentious will be closed

Wise words mate.

 

[peteblue]

Difference between Blair's approach in 1997 onwards and Corbyn's in the previous decade being?

I see only that Blair had the power to do something about it and that Corbyn likes the idea of a united Ireland.

With Corbyn being a commited pacificst (to the point of huge derision), there's little to suggest he supports the IRA's methods any more than Tony Blair did.

The point previously of course being that Blair has not been vilified for shaking their hands but Corbyn has.

It is not for Corbyn to like or dislike the idea of uniting Northern Ireland and Eire, it is for the people of those two countries. I am not aware that either party wishes to belong or unite with the other.....

 

[Pienaar's gloves]

It is not for Corbyn to like or dislike the idea of uniting Northern Ireland and Eire, it is for the people of those two countries. I am not aware that either party wishes to belong or unite with the other.....

He's entitled to hold whatever view he likes and he supports the party policy of backing the Good Friday agreement so I'm not really sure what your point is.

'Re-unite Ireland' will not be in any Labour manifesto, will it?

Do you hold the same view on Theresa Villiers who is a unionist but also supports the Good Friday agreement?

 

[peteblue]

He's entitled to hold whatever view he likes and he supports the party policy of backing the Good Friday agreement so I'm not really sure what your point is.

'Re-unite Ireland' will not be in any Labour manifesto, will it?

The point is politicians can espouse views on this subject, but it's other people, usually innocents, who invariably pay a price for their ignorance.......

 

[Pienaar's gloves]

The point is politicians can espouse views on this subject, but it's other people, usually innocents, who invariably pay a price for their ignorance.......

Good job Blair/Corbyn/Major all broadly went for peace in Northern Ireland regardless of their differing views on the politically sensitive nature of the subject.

 

[ToffeeTim]

Good job Blair/Corbyn/Major all broadly went for peace in Northern Ireland regardless of their differing views on the politically sensitive nature of the subject.

The people of Northern Ireland made peace because us younger generation have had enough of thugs on every side going out and killing each other, and worse being supported by sections of their communities. Thankfully these people have been ostracised to a very large degree. It was nil to do with Blair, it was nil to do with Major. It was because the people had had enough. And thank goodness.

Seeing some of the remarks in this thread frustrates me. Especially from people who didn't grow up here and have no clue whatsoever. Rant over lol

 

[Pienaar's gloves]

The people of Northern Ireland made peace because us younger generation have had enough of thugs on every side going out and killing each other, and worse being supported by sections of their communities. Thankfully these people have been ostracised to a very large degree. It was nil to do with Blair, it was nil to do with Major. It was because the people had had enough. And thank goodness.

Seeing some of the remarks in this thread frustrates me. Especially from people who didn't grow up here and have no clue whatsoever. Rant over lol

I don't doubt it but you don't think the agreement for the IRA to dump some of their arms (supposedly all) played a massive part? Or the break up of the RUC for the PSNI? I suppose the point I'm making is that their actions played a part in ostracising all of these thugs on all sides.

Interestingly I lived with a lad from Carrickfergus who regarded those folks, not as heroes, but as having played a part.

 

[ToffeeTim]

I don't doubt it but you don't think the agreement for the IRA to dump some of their arms (supposedly all) played a massive part? Or the break up of the RUC for the PSNI? I suppose the point I'm making is that their actions played a part in ostracising all of these thugs on all sides.

Interestingly I lived with a lad from Carrickfergus who regarded those folks, not as heroes, but as having played a part.

Governments were trying to implement power sharing since 74. It didn't work then because there was support for violence. There was no appetite for violence by the 90s because the people had had enough and attitudes has shifted. That's why power sharing worked and peace occurred. It wasn't some magical plan thought up by Blair.

Look I'm not gonna lie, I don't find it ideal that almost half of the government ministers in NI have served time for terror offences, but if that's what's needed to make this a peaceful and enjoyable place to live then so be it.

 

[tsubaki]

I don't doubt it but you don't think the agreement for the IRA to dump some of their arms (supposedly all) played a massive part? Or the break up of the RUC for the PSNI? I suppose the point I'm making is that their actions played a part in ostracising all of these thugs on all sides.

Interestingly I lived with a lad from Carrickfergus who regarded those folks, not as heroes, but as having played a part.

It did, but the loss of support they felt from the community meant that it wasn't viable to keep doing what they had been doing, at least on the scale that they had been doing it. You can see the truth of that with the reaction to the killing of that McCartney bloke.

 

[Pienaar's gloves]

Governments were trying to implement power sharing since 74. It didn't work then because there was support for violence. There was no appetite for violence by the 90s because the people had had enough and attitudes has shifted. That's why power sharing worked and peace occurred. It wasn't some magical plan thought up by Blair.

Look I'm not gonna lie, I don't find it ideal that almost half of the government ministers in NI have served time for terror offences, but if that's what's needed to make this a peaceful and enjoyable place to live then so be it.

Understandable. Don't worry, NI isn't alone in having such people as ministers. lol

Fair enough, I don't remember the nineties very well anyhow.

I don't think Blair was a magician, just a man who supported and tried to implement peaceful power sharing, and harking back to my original point, that's what Corbyn wanted to do. Get the aggressors in the same room and thrash it out. They could probably only do that because both sides had realised that times were changing.

I just don't think it's a stick to hit Jeremy Corbyn with.

 

[Jib in lad]

http://news.sky.com/story/margaret-thatcher-pursued-welfare-plans-despite-public-outcry-10671543

 

[roydo]

http://news.sky.com/story/margaret-thatcher-pursued-welfare-plans-despite-public-outcry-10671543

Something didnt happen nearly 40 years ago then?

Great

 

[Jib in lad]

Something didnt happen nearly 40 years ago then?

Great

She wanted it to happen though didn't she.