Ronald Koeman discussion

[Blue Cheese]

Complete and utter rubbish...

Care to elaborate?

 

[Mountfield1985]

Not a bit of it. No snoopers to get out of. Sorry.

It was a colossal first season points total that Martinez could never hope to achieve in that second season because the EL fixtures cut across the season, and even if PL form had held up better it'd still never have gotten near that total. His third season here the players, after a decent first 12 games or so, completely lost faith in the manager and the supporters lost faith with both manager and players. It had to end.

In the same way - and it's one I've consistently argued both now and in the past - I've stated that no manager who succeeds Martinez will ever get that total number of points in a season unless the squad is bankrolled significantly. Short of getting a complete genius in who can plait sawdust, that remains our best hope of toppling that record. But we shouldn't stop aiming for it, that remains its significance.

Yet, you're saying we should all compare Koemans performance to 13/14. Rather than compare with the mess he inherited.

But when Martinez dropped us 6 places and 25 odd points, you claimed it was unfair to compare with 13/14

You just want to set Koeman up for a fall.

 

[Goat]

Yet, you're saying we should all compare Koemans performance to 13/14. Rather than compare with the mess he inherited.

But when Martinez dropped us 6 places and 25 odd points, you claimed it was unfair to compare with 13/14

You just want to set Koeman up for a fall.

Ive no issue with comparing Koeman with 13/14

16/17
12 games played 19 points
13/14
12 games played 21 points

So we are infact only 2 points off the bestest record of any Everton manager in living history 72 points record league total 5th place finish failure.

 

[davek]

Whilst the EL fixtures are of course a mitigating factor, to say they are the overriding reason just isn't true.

You and I with others defended Martinez to the hilt but there is no getting away from the fact that after the first season he utterly failed in the transfer market.

He failed to bring in a third-choice CB, instead relying upon John Stones being ready. He wasn't.
Failed to plan for life after Howard. He himself said he didn't think Robles would ever 'be himself' at Everton.
Failed to replace Deulofeu's pace/invention.
Failed to bring in a different option to Lukaku.

Whilst I am sure you will respond with "where is the cash?", we now know that it isn't always about that.

Slaven Bilic is going through exactly the same. Great first season, fails to bring in players to challenge what he already has and what he got every ounce out of the year before....slippery slope.

I personally think Koeman does deserve some criticism for last summer, whether that's with Walsh/Moshiri I don't know.

We finished poorly the last 2 years and therefore "giving the players a chance" for me is the wrong decision. I understand coming in and binning off 6/7 players may upset the dressing room but could any of the remaining players have really had a problem with it?

The following...

Cleverley - what role does he fulfil?
Oviedo - such a terrible player it hurts
Mirrallas - has had too many chances and not seized any of them
Lennon - what role does he fulfil?
Funes Mori - probably am being harsh - he's just so rash
Gibson - what role does he fulfil?
Robles - is he ever going to be a number 1?
Besic - the most bizarre, overrated footballer we have. what role does he fulfil?!

Koeman has to bring in 4 or 5 bodies this january. He now knows what was obvious on his first day, we are cack in so many areas.

I agree. I said loads of times that the biggest error Martinez made in his second summer here was his failure to punt Moyes' players while his stock was sky high and bring in his own players and sink or swim with them. He didn't and it was a fatal error in the end which compounded all his own mistakes.

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

I agree. I said loads of times that the biggest error Martinez made in his second summer here was his failure to punt Moyes' players while his stock was sky high and bring in his own players and sink or swim with them. He didn't and it was a fatal error in the end which compounded all his own mistakes.

He did mate......and drowned.

 

[Goat]

I agree. I said loads of times that the biggest error Martinez made in his second summer here was his failure to punt Moyes' players while his stock was sky high and bring in his own players and sink or swim with them. He didn't and it was a fatal error in the end which compounded all his own mistakes.

He signed 21 players in 3 years.

 

[davek]

Yet, you're saying we should all compare Koemans performance to 13/14. Rather than compare with the mess he inherited.

But when Martinez dropped us 6 places and 25 odd points, you claimed it was unfair to compare with 13/14

You just want to set Koeman up for a fall.

No mate, GrandOldTeam stated this season's start bears favourable comparison with the last two seasons. It does, but my point was that it's relatively an encouraging start only with those last two seasons as a reference point.

 

[Mickey]

He signed 21 players in 3 years.

How many?

 

[Goat]

How many?

22 players, my mistake, I missed 1.

 

[davek]

He signed 21 players in 3 years.

Mainly for the U23s and to bulk up squad numbers than pressure for first team places. I'd say only three were bought to play first team football from the off: Barry, Lukaku, McCarthy fit into that latter category.

 

[Goat]

Mainly for the U23s and to bulk up squad numbers than pressure for first team places. I'd say only three were bought to play first team football from the off: Barry, Lukaku, McCarthy fit into that latter category.

I see, which means he wasted 50m on signing 19 players for no reason then?

An Interesting point.

 

[ianefc]

@davek I'm willing to defend you here mate, drop me a PM about the key points you'd like me to make. I'll do it and like everyone of your posts.

 

[davek]

I see, which means he wasted 50m on signing 19 players for no reason then?

An Interesting point.

No mate, they were used and used often...they just weren't bought as first teamers who went straight in and took a place.

 

[Goat]

No mate, they were used and used often...they just weren't bought as first teamers who went straight in and took a place.

Right, which brings us back to the point you made.

You wanted him to be able to bring his own players in, he brought in 22 of them, which is an entire squad.

 

[davek]

Right, which brings us back to the point you made.

You wanted him to be able to bring his own players in, he brought in 22 of them, which is an entire squad.

...but if he persists in prioritising the existing players he inherited for whatever reason - diplomacy I suspect - then it's not dealing with the problem.

He was weak. If it'd have been me I'd have punted them into League One where they belonged.