Have we lost our passion?

[Ashtonian]

I'm really not sure how you could come to the conclusion that the fan base has lost passion. We've got more season tickets than ever before, Goodison is packed out every week and we sell out away fixtures before they get anywhere near general sale. We've also seen a fan revolt get rid of our last manager, and just this week a large number of fans have taken great umbrage at the current manager being seen as disrespectful to the club's heritage and standing. That's passion.

Atmospheres like the Chelsea and City cup games last season are as good as any we've had in the timescale you're talking about. A lot of it is down to selective memory - yes Royle's first game had a feeling of raw passion, but I bet the atmosphere will be just as good if we give them a shellacking on a monday night come december. Similarly, a 12 45 kick off at home to Watford or someone is likely to be as quiet as when we played Coventry 3 weeks before that Derby, and 28,000 people (completely unthinkable in this passionless age) turned up to watch us lose in near funereal silence.

I'm not talking specifically about the fans though mate. I am talking about the lot of it, the players who don't fight on the pitch anymore, the players who aren't really arsed losing anymore, the lack of passion in derby games for many a year now, the home crowds who are normally silent unless we are playing a money club, those sorts of things.

Which all in comparison to 20 plus years ago where that passion and fight and pride was on the pitch for us to see. the passion that won cups, that had players playing for the shirt and not their paycheck. This whole getting the club that keeps getting thrown at Koeman, we had a load of players who got the club every week, now who do we have? Genuinely?

 

[Lanolin]

Cracking post @Khalekan
My feelings exactly.
I've noticed several posters suggesting that passion recedes with age. Frankly that's B***ocks.
Like you, I am every bit as passionate now as I was in the 60s but I do find it regrettable that the players these days with their millionaire life styles have very little in common with the average fan.

I wouldn't say it's receding passion but I agree with posters saying that things change as you get older.

From when I was a kid right up to when I was in my twenties I would have still enjoyed the day out at Stamford Bridge last week. Yes the game would have annoyed me but the time spent with my dad as a kid or on the ale with the lads as I got older would have meant I still wanted to do it all again the next week. Now I'm a bit older with more responsibilities etc I come away resenting that I wasted time, money etc going to watch that shambles when I could have done something constructive, and wonder whether I can be bothered doing the same thing next time. I think that's where those posters are coming from.

 

[Deleted member 24970]

I know right, it's all a bit sad when I think about it, passion on the pitch spreads to the stands. We need more snide in our team, preferably a player who will fall in love with the club, similar to Cahill.

The owner spending a bob or two would help, we'll see

For talent yes, but what we are talking about here is commitment, a fans man, something that little bit extra to compliment talent, fight, pride, passion and a willingness to be the best 24/7, see Suarez at Liverpool, Ronaldo breaking records. Talent alone is not enough, see Ravel Morrison, Saido berahino.

 

[Lanolin]

I'm not talking specifically about the fans though mate. I am talking about the lot of it, the players who don't fight on the pitch anymore, the players who aren't really arsed losing anymore, the lack of passion in derby games for many a year now, the home crowds who are normally silent unless we are playing a money club, those sorts of things.

Which all in comparison to 20 plus years ago where that passion and fight and pride was on the pitch for us to see. the passion that won cups, that had players playing for the shirt and not their paycheck. This whole getting the club that keeps getting thrown at Koeman, we had a load of players who got the club every week, now who do we have? Genuinely?

But some of those things are specifically the fans aren't they? That's why I addressed it.

20 years ago we had Bilic, Kanchelskis, Barmby, Gerrard, Samways, Barrett etc. You really think they had more passion for Everton than Jagielka, Baines, Besic, Oviedo? It's nostalgia pure and simple, you're looking through blue tinted specs at a period where we used to get much lower crowds, with some players who royally screwed us over, and thinking that it was all so different then. It really wasn't.

 

[Ashtonian]

Good post, Ash.

I can only answer for myself in saying that my passion for EFC burns as fiercely now in 2016 as it did in 1971 when I started attending home games without my dad and uncles and then a year or two later when I first became a travelling fan with my mates.

And I know it is almost heretical to say it round these parts but this time last year I was looking forward to going the game as much, if not more, than at any time during that almost half a century, such was the hope, the expectation and the feeling that we were a goalkeeper away from cracking the big time I felt last fall.

But I will say this.

If I was just starting out now I doubt I would have fallen so completely in love with the game ad I did as a teenager in the late 60s and early 70s.

In fact I can state with certainty that I would not.

And it is nowt to do with the lack of trophies.

The mid 70s to early 80s remains my favourite era as an Evertonian.

(that is no doubt connected to the fact that period coincided with the freedom that came with financial independence from parents at the start of it and the responsibilities that came with marriage and parenthood that brought my carefree young adult life and bachelorhood to an abrupt end in 1981 )

And we went years without a trophy then.....in fact until Andy King scored in 1978, we hadn't even scored in a derby since David Johnson netted the winner in 1971, my first derby.

There is something fundamentally different about the game these days.

There is a massive disconnect between the players and the fans that just did not exist back then.

Andy King lived round the corner from where I now live in Melling.

That just wouldn't happen now.

Jim Pearson or Mick Buckley were to be seen in the clubs around town on a Saturday night.....and not in some roped off VIP lounge either....by the bar or on the dance floor.

And they would have spoken to you about that day's game.

Gary Jones made his Everton debut circa 1974, in his 20s, having worked on the sites two or three years before.

For the life of me I cannot love our modern players the way I loved Micky Lyons, Ronnie Goodlass, Duncan McMagic, Neville Southall, Peter Reid, Dave Watson, Graham Stuart, Big Dunc or Timmy Cahill.

The closest player I have to some sort of empathy with today is Seamus Coleman....probably because he looks and sounds like the type of west coast of Ireland stock ol' Khal is descended from.

Never again will a player leaving this club sadden me and break my heart I the way Alan Ball and Wayne Rooney did.

Nor will I feel the outrage I did when Colin Harvey was sold to Sheffield Wednesday on the cheap.

Then there is the club itself.

Although I think we probably retain a sense of local identity more than any other major club in England, there is still, I think, the notion that we are customers rather than the living, breathing heart and soul of the club.

And yet at the same time the club has spectacularly failed to embrace the modern face if football by embracing the media obsession with the game and has failed to enhance our status one little bit.

In fact they have done the opposite and actually decreased our standing and our profile.

Still, it is what it is.

And this arl bugger will show up on Saturday as passionate as ever

COYB

exactly mate. Waht you say is us, that will never change no matter what happens. Most of us expected to lose to united in the semi final, didn't stop it hurting when it happened, even a small part of me breaks through the apathy of derby games just hoping we will win one.

I would imagine going back to the eras you mention would be a completely different experience for us younger fans who only really know the premier league era. The players were different back then and probably the way they went about it all. To a certain extent football has really died on its arse in that respect, we see money and stars and forget exactly what makes football what it is, just our local football team kicking the ball around a park, and you happen to turn up to watch them.

See even when you mention the sales of Ball and rooney, what gets me about that is that as a club we have come to expect to sell players. We alkl expect to sell our star player next summer and we will just accept it. Where is the fan base wanting him to stay? Where is the protests and marches that we don't sell him, or stones, or barkley, or whoever else? I remember there was uproar when ferguson was sold, even cost us our manager as a result, do our players not matter as much to us anymore?

 

[Gladystweet]

I'm not talking specifically about the fans though mate. I am talking about the lot of it, the players who don't fight on the pitch anymore, the players who aren't really arsed losing anymore, the lack of passion in derby games for many a year now, the home crowds who are normally silent unless we are playing a money club, those sorts of things.

Which all in comparison to 20 plus years ago where that passion and fight and pride was on the pitch for us to see. the passion that won cups, that had players playing for the shirt and not their paycheck. This whole getting the club that keeps getting thrown at Koeman, we had a load of players who got the club every week, now who do we have? Genuinely?

I'll be honest with you mate. When I first read the thread title I thought my missus had been writing in to GOT.........

 

[Deleted member 24970]

I'm really not sure how you could come to the conclusion that the fan base has lost passion. We've got more season tickets than ever before, Goodison is packed out every week and we sell out away fixtures before they get anywhere near general sale. We've also seen a fan revolt get rid of our last manager, and just this week a large number of fans have taken great umbrage at the current manager being seen as disrespectful to the club's heritage and standing. That's passion.

Atmospheres like the Chelsea and City cup games last season are as good as any we've had in the timescale you're talking about. A lot of it is down to selective memory - yes Royle's first game had a feeling of raw passion, but I bet the atmosphere will be just as good if we give them a shellacking on a monday night come december. Similarly, a 12 45 kick off at home to Watford or someone is likely to be as quiet as when we played Coventry 3 weeks before that Derby, and 28,000 people (completely unthinkable in this passionless age) turned up to watch us lose in near funereal silence.

So does Emirates, Old Trafford, Stamford Bridge and the Etihad. Numbers doesn't always create atmosphere, the people behind the numbers do.
As for a fan revolt to sack the manager ? You mean hundreds of thousands of fans sitting on forums whining, bitching and moaning but then only a couple of hundred staying behind in protest that time ?

Selective memory throwing selective memories about here my Friend.

 

[Ashtonian]

But some of those things are specifically the fans aren't they? That's why I addressed it.

20 years ago we had Bilic, Kanchelskis, Barmby, Gerrard, Samways, Barrett etc. You really think they had more passion for Everton than Jagielka, Baines, Besic, Oviedo? It's nostalgia pure and simple, you're looking through blue tinted specs at a period where we used to get much lower crowds, with some players who royally screwed us over, and thinking that it was all so different then. It really wasn't.

I can only speak as a supporter mate. As a kid yes things would have been more pleasant, but as an adult i see the way the team is now and it doesn't compare for passion or caring. All i want to see from the team is a fight in them not to lose games, we had the dogs of war, now we have what exactly? no-one for a long time to stand up and be counted on the pitch, Cahill being the last, before him ferguson.

 

[Moomin]

Have we lost our passion as a football club?


I remember going back to when I first started following Everton properly as a kid. We had just stayed up through a heroic 2-0 turnaround against Wimbledon on the last day of the season. My first game was Forest at home on a weeknight, we lost 2-0, but just seeing my team made me happy. Not long after that came my first Derby, I never realised then how bad the team was, or understood the notion of how bad mike walker was. So hearing Joe Royle was manager went straight over my head at the time. What I do remember, was a Scotsman called Duncan Ferguson jump higher than any Liverpool player and bury a header into the Gwladys Street end, and subsequently the whole crowd make the ground shake afterwards. Fast forward 22 years later and I witnessed an Everton team turn up to Anfield and proceed to go through the motions, to not only lose but not even care. What had changed? You could pick out many reasons as to why but one thing that was not on show that night was pride or passion for the shirt, which is what I can see missing from the club.

The past 15 years have been long for us all, no success, no trophies and nothing really to boast about. However could we have lost that passion we once had, the same passion that kept us up every year, that won us derbies by itself and made Goodison such a hard place to come and play? Looking at the starting 11 today and you question who cares in that team? Our captain is quiet, the players never fight for the badge on their shirt, and we seem to accept things when they go wrong. Who do you blame for that? Moyes and his negative outlook? Martinez losing the backing of the team? Do you blame us, the fans? When was the last time we genuinely went out onto the pitch and fought for 90 minutes every week? Or when the team actually cared after losing? Perhaps this is what the problem is, why we aren’t successful, why we have bottled every big chance we have got over the past 15 years.

Us fans are very much part of this as well. Goodison sometimes can be quiet as a church, I can’t remember the last time we finished singing Grand Old Team, in fact we have been content for 2 years now to pay our money and not say a word until customary boos on half time. Is this lack of passion now rubbing off on us? We are the best fans in the world when we want to be, yet we seem so apathetic now, we have stopped really expecting us to be the Everton of old and have settled for the Everton of today? No different to anyone else in the league? There is always the discussion of whether Cahill was a club legend, or Ferguson, but at least they cared for the club. You knew when they went out on the pitch they would run through brick walls for us, would fight for every ball for us, and in one case literally wear the club on their sleeve for us. Do any of the players we have now carry that same passion? Do any of them care losing when they go back to their big houses and rich lives, do they even need to care?

You could argue this is all product of the new money club culture that has really taken over. Our former owner has not really helped things and Moyes sucked a lot of enthusiasm out of the club by the end of his tenure, but are we lacking our Fergusons, our Cahill’s, our Watson’s? I remember not too long ago, Suarez the year before had deliberately injured Mirallas to get him off the pitch; he escaped with just a booking. We were all fuming, it was the same old story again, which cost us going for the win. Then 12 months later, the ball has bounced up on the half way line, bit of a nothing ball, then BANG! Mirallas had gone in on Suarez, a bit of revenge for last year. That actually made me over the moon to see because it was the first time in a derby in my memory that any one of our players shown that passion, to care about that game, and for the club. Perhaps, just perhaps, we need to start on December 19th to get that passion back, to fight on the pitch and turn this around because otherwise, if the passion and pride go away, then so does the spark that really made us Everton.

 

[Whistlin' Dixie]

before him ferguson

When he could be arsed.

 

[ijjysmith]

I can only speak as a supporter mate. As a kid yes things would have been more pleasant, but as an adult i see the way the team is now and it doesn't compare for passion or caring. All i want to see from the team is a fight in them not to lose games, we had the dogs of war, now we have what exactly? no-one for a long time to stand up and be counted on the pitch, Cahill being the last, before him ferguson.

It seems you're just after one or two players who are passionate for the cause rather than Everton as a whole not being passionate.

Have a look at some other clubs though, do you think Eden Hazard really gives a hoot about Chelsea? He'd be off to Madrid sharpish if he had the chance. It's a different world now.

 

[Lanolin]

So does Emirates, Old Trafford, Stamford Bridge and the Etihad. Numbers doesn't always create atmosphere, the people behind the numbers do.
As for a fan revolt to sack the manager ? You mean hundreds of thousands of fans sitting on forums whining, bitching and moaning but then only a couple of hundred staying behind in protest that time ?

Selective memory throwing selective memories about here my Friend.

The world's moved on if you haven't noticed. Protests online are actually a thing, they work and everything. You don't need to stage a sit in because the club has people online looking at public opinion - the online backlash is therefore just as effective as the one in person. For those who want to go old school though, you could also throw in the boycott of the sunderland away game as evidence of the revolt.

I would say 30,000+ plus people are rather unlikely to pay large sums of money to watch a seasons worth of games in a dilapidated ground, knowing that the team is highly unlikely to achieve anything of note, unless they're passionate about it.

 

[Gladystweet]

It seems you're just after one or two players who are passionate for the cause rather than Everton as a whole not being passionate.

Have a look at some other clubs though, do you think Eden Hazard really gives a hoot about Chelsea? He'd be off to Madrid sharpish if he had the chance. It's a different world now.

Once mega money came in to the equation, passion went out the window.
They don't even have to play to be rich now and the rest don't even have to be particularly good to make a fortune.
Like you say, it's a different world and it ain't going to change any time soon.

 

[Ashtonian]

When he could be arsed.

He could be,m just his body not following his head. Main reason for his petulant red cards most of the time, just frustration from him that he couldn't play the way he wanted.

It seems you're just after one or two players who are passionate for the cause rather than Everton as a whole not being passionate.

Have a look at some other clubs though, do you think Eden Hazard really gives a hoot about Chelsea? He'd be off to Madrid sharpish if he had the chance. It's a different world now.

Clubs like chelsea are too far gone in terms of all that now. They sold their soul for a league title and never looked back, would take an absolute collapse for them to rediscover what made chelsea great in their eyes. but yeah, those players don't care one bit but then they can throw money at players to pretend to care long enough before their next big payday.

to be honest yes, i do want players passionate about the cause rather than the club. I am not naive to think that we can get a team of players who all support us or even care about us after they leave. But whilst they wear the blue shirt they just battle for us, they care about results and just have that bit of passion rather than not giving a damn.

 

[ijjysmith]

Clubs like chelsea are too far gone in terms of all that now. They sold their soul for a league title and never looked back, would take an absolute collapse for them to rediscover what made chelsea great in their eyes. but yeah, those players don't care one bit but then they can throw money at players to pretend to care long enough before their next big payday.

to be honest yes, i do want players passionate about the cause rather than the club. I am not naive to think that we can get a team of players who all support us or even care about us after they leave. But whilst they wear the blue shirt they just battle for us, they care about results and just have that bit of passion rather than not giving a damn.

OK. Fair.

Do you think Jeff Hendricks give a hoot about Burnley? He'd move to Everton at the drop of a hat.