Ronald Koeman discussion

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davek said:
...and Arsenal and Spurs hammered them.

As for United: no two games are the same and different circumstances led to United's downfall there than ours.
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Spurs haven't played them mate

Arsenal and Liverpool beat them yes, before they switched to this 3-4-3. Since then their results have been 2-0, 3-0, 4-0, 2-0 and 5-0.

A disgraceful performance from us but lets not pretend they are no-marks mate.
 
BlueToff said:
And it was disgraceful.

But just as it wasn't all down to Roberto when we got thrashed at Anfield, it isn't all down to Koeman.

He got it wrong. pretty sure he'll know that. The players were dreadful, pretty sure they'll all know that as well.
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I agree. My point is to counter this illusion that's arisen of late that we have a defence that's sorted out. I've been saying for weeks that it isn't and the back four are still the utter mess they were under RM. For Koeman to then go and compound the situation by playing two geriatrics in a three man defence down there sort of hammers that point home.

He needs to be down at FF twice as long as he usually is and earning that king's ransom he gets each season and coach some defensive nous into the back four. Up to now he's been avoiding that and just pulling nine back behind the ball in order to become "defensively solid".

I'm sorry. I think Koeman is a decent manager as he proved at S'ton. But I'm not being had off by this feller just because he was a star player at Barcelona. Not one friggin bit of it.
 
Mountfield1985 said:
Spurs haven't played them mate

Arsenal and Liverpool beat them yes, before they switched to this 3-4-3. Since then their results have been 2-0, 3-0, 4-0, 2-0 and 5-0.

A disgraceful performance from us but lets not pretend they are no-marks mate.
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Of course they're not no marks, I never suggested otherwise. But you can bet your bottom dollar a team outside the elite will go there fairly shortly and play them a bit more cagily than we did and come away with a result.
 

BlueToff said:
Arsenal and Spurs hammered them before Conte switched to a back three.

Since doing so they have won four games on the bounce, scoring 16 without conceding.

I'm not at all making excuses for our display, which was the worst I've seen us put in since Anfield in April and, well, that was the worst I'd seen us ever, probably.

Totally abject from all involved, but hind-sights a great thing.

Matching them up wasn't our issue. Our issue was we were being outclassed and then two almighty cock-ups led to our defence collapsing.

Given how much we'd generally improved in that department, it's a real worry.

Squad's not good enough, think that's plain for all to see.
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No mate, if you are a PL manager with a growing reputation and a wage packet to prove it I expect foresight, not hindsight.
 
BlueToff said:
Fair enough Ash - we do agree, just maybe not on the semantics.

On your last point like, frigging hell, how can you put Kev in that top six bracket yet not include Bolasie/Del?

Bolasie at least creates - still in the top few for assists this season in the league. I don't not like Kev, but he's been crap.
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Perhaps not as a first choice winger then but as a back up. If he left here (which will probably never happen now) he would be first choice for a lesser CL team i would imagine so in the grand scheme of things, a decent attacking back up. Perhaps not so far this season but then i don't think many players are shining so far.

Bolasie for me is an above average winger. Yes he creates but he is also wasteful and ineffective at times. Just like Del created last year but the grand scheme of things is that he isn't that good of a player deep down. Yannick may be our best winger but is that really a great thing? More so does Bolasie's price tag factor into people's perception of him? He cost more so he must be better?

He just hasn't impressed me that much. I might be being harsh but i want to see this team challenging for europa and i just don't see the likes of bolaise being that key of a player when we could have signed a lot better in one way or another.

Del very much is an everton player. We think he is great but in reality, he would not look out of place at borunemouth or burnley. He is very wasteful, still struggles to beat a man, his creativity seems to have been a 2 month fad and he offers nothing better when he plays. He has the talent to improve yes, same as ross in that regard. Similar to Bolasie's price tag, would we still think highly of Del (despite 2 managers not playing him now) if he had come from anywhere less prestigious than barcelona?
 
BlueToff said:
He literally put another attacker on against Chelsea the other day.

That worked well didn't it...

And Lennon also came on.
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Yeah worked wonders mate, but if you wish to just pick out the part about the substitute then that's fine, fact remains he went with one winger ala Martinez. The team ALWAYS lacks balance and structure when we go with one winger and throw either ross or tom out wide. Surely we should of learned from Martinez reign ?
 
BlueToff said:
Arsenal and Spurs hammered them before Conte switched to a back three.

Since doing so they have won four games on the bounce, scoring 16 without conceding.

I'm not at all making excuses for our display, which was the worst I've seen us put in since Anfield in April and, well, that was the worst I'd seen us ever, probably.

Totally abject from all involved, but hind-sights a great thing.

Matching them up wasn't our issue. Our issue was we were being outclassed and then two almighty cock-ups led to our defence collapsing.

Given how much we'd generally improved in that department, it's a real worry.

Squad's not good enough, think that's plain for all to see.
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Players involved in both games
Oviedo
Funes Mori
Barry
Barkley
Mirallas
Lukaku
Cleverley

With the exception of Barry, Barkley & Lukaku i wouldn't care less if the others never played for everton again
 
Paul Bernard said:
Yeah worked wonders mate, but if you wish to just pick out the part about the substitute then that's fine, fact remains he went with one winger ala Martinez. The team ALWAYS lacks balance and structure when we go with one winger and throw either ross or tom out wide. Surely we should of learned from Martinez reign ?
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He went with a 3-5-2 with Bolasie playing off Rom.

I don't think he'll be using it again soon.
 

BlueToff said:
Fair enough Ash - we do agree, just maybe not on the semantics.

On your last point like, frigging hell, how can you put Kev in that top six bracket yet not include Bolasie/Del?

Bolasie at least creates - still in the top few for assists this season in the league. I don't not like Kev, but he's been crap.
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Because Kev is more consistent than Yan and Delboy - that doesn't bode well for Yan and Delboy considering Kev is inconsistent. Then again he gets taken off every game even when playing well, often for a lesser quality like Tom C.
 

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