Ross Barkley

[Barnfred 55]

Another good summary mate. I think confidence and fitness are very linked with Barkley. As with most of the squad, you don't end up as unfit as they were at the back end of last season and regain that fully in 4-6 months. I look at a lad like Lallana who doesn't posses an nth of the talent of Barkley but look at the transformation he has had under Klopp because he is now fitter and stronger. He's gone from being a neat and tidy, almost Cleverley like player to being a very central part of what they do and for my money one of the most effective box to box midfielders this season. If Ross was as fit as Lallana (a big ask) he would probably score 15 league goals as Lallana gets into a lot of good positions but doesn't finish well enough.

What is true of Ross Barkley is what Carragher and Neville said about him at the start of the season. Neville pointed out his stats, compared to Lampard, Gerrard & Scholes are very good at an equivalent age. However it was around this time that all 3 kicked on. Lampard started regularly scoring 15 a season, Gerrard a bit more inconsistent in front of goal but had that amazing season and Scholes became the central hub of a side that won the European cup (as did Gerrard). The simplified message is he now needs to kick on.

I think in his own way that is what Koeman is saying and trying to get across. the Ajax mentality which he buys into is very much that way, you strive for excellence and hold high standards. I worry that how Koeman delivers his message may be upsetting to some of the players and may not be sugar coated as you can imagine say a Klopp may have done, however it's a similar message. Ross is really at a cross roads now. He is at an age where he needs to start delivering regularly and he has a manager who not just expects that but will not forgive anything less than his very best. It will be the making or the breaking of Barkley but ultimately his form will dictate that. If he flounders under the pressure of Koeman now I'd say it was unlikely he'd make it to the top anyway.

As a final point to re-enforce this, both Tadic and Mane fell out with Koeman last season. However both came back into the team and were better players for it. Both probably ended the season as two of the more effective attacking midfielders players in the league.

You won't ever get Ross having the same fitness levels of Lallana. he doesn't have the right physicality. But it's that same physicality that gives him his uniqueness, if that makes sense. He's never going to be the player we all want him to be, but that's probably got more to do with our expectations rather than the lad himself. We need to find the best position for him within the team structure; how best to utilise the special qualities that he has. I'm hoping that Koeman is the man to do that. Then it's up to Ross to apply himself. As you say mate, it's a pivotal season for him.

Your analogy with Mane and Tadic is interesting. You're the stat person so can probably correct me if I'm wrong, but I'd imagine that, Leicester apart, Southampton probably had a good a record as anybody post Christmas last season.

 

[catcherintherye]

You won't ever get Ross having the same fitness levels of Lallana. he doesn't have the right physicality. But it's that same physicality that gives him his uniqueness, if that makes sense. He's never going to be the player we all want him to be, but that's probably got more to do with our expectations rather than the lad himself. We need to find the best position for him within the team structure; how best to utilise the special qualities that he has. I'm hoping that Koeman is the man to do that. Then it's up to Ross to apply himself. As you say mate, it's a pivotal season for him.

Your analogy with Mane and Tadic is interesting. You're the stat person so can probably correct me if I'm wrong, but I'd imagine that, Leicester apart, Southampton probably had a good a record as anybody post Christmas last season.

Yes that is true, Lallana is a naturally fitter lad and Cleverley is probably the one closest to that, ie not the quickest but can run all day. However Ross can certainly get fitter and stronger and I think that it will benefit him. There is every chance that we see the best from Ross after Christmas this year as he struggles to cope with Koeman's physical demands and wanting more consistency from him.

You are absolutely right about finding a position for him. I personally think in a midfield 3 with 1 sitting is probably where he would thrive most. I do also think though, we need to get the rest of the team sorted before we see the best of Ross too, he needs insurance behind and options in front. I think we are a left sided/creative player short if Bolasie plays the other side. Over time I also think Barry could do with being phased out for someone who is more physical. Barkley alongside say a Sissoko & Gueye with say a Tadic/Mata, Bolasie and Lukaku up front would be explosive.

 

[Barnfred 55]

Yes that is true, Lallana is a naturally fitter lad and Cleverley is probably the one closest to that, ie not the quickest but can run all day. However Ross can certainly get fitter and stronger and I think that it will benefit him. There is every chance that we see the best from Ross after Christmas this year as he struggles to cope with Koeman's physical demands and wanting more consistency from him.

You are absolutely right about finding a position for him. I personally think in a midfield 3 with 1 sitting is probably where he would thrive most. I do also think though, we need to get the rest of the team sorted before we see the best of Ross too, he needs insurance behind and options in front. I think we are a left sided/creative player short if Bolasie plays the other side. Over time I also think Barry could do with being phased out for someone who is more physical. Barkley alongside say a Sissoko & Gueye with say a Tadic/Mata, Bolasie and Lukaku up front would be explosive.

We're getting into the realms of FF now mate so we need to be careful. But once again I agree with you re Ross's potentially best position. He played that role a few times for England last year and absolutely shone getting MOM in a couple of games I think. He played on the left of a midfield 3 with just 1 holding and he dominated games, against average opposition it must be said. We've only ever really tried him at the front of a midfield 3 with 2 holding.

I'd like to see us have another go for William Carvalho for the holding role. Ross alongside Gana in front of him. And a left sided playmaker rather than an out and out winger. Somebody who would bring some much needed guile to the team whilst also bringing Baines more into the game. Ability from dead ball situation also needs to be high on his list of skills. You can see the difference someone like Payet has made to West Ham in that regard. Hopefully Walsh is thinking along the same lines and is on the case already

 

[jackyboy]

Yes that is true, Lallana is a naturally fitter lad and Cleverley is probably the one closest to that, ie not the quickest but can run all day. However Ross can certainly get fitter and stronger and I think that it will benefit him. There is every chance that we see the best from Ross after Christmas this year as he struggles to cope with Koeman's physical demands and wanting more consistency from him.

You are absolutely right about finding a position for him. I personally think in a midfield 3 with 1 sitting is probably where he would thrive most. I do also think though, we need to get the rest of the team sorted before we see the best of Ross too, he needs insurance behind and options in front. I think we are a left sided/creative player short if Bolasie plays the other side. Over time I also think Barry could do with being phased out for someone who is more physical. Barkley alongside say a Sissoko & Gueye with say a Tadic/Mata, Bolasie and Lukaku up front would be explosive.

Come next season, do you think Gueye will be the deepest of our midfield three? Or do you think he becomes the B2B and we need to sign somebody new to sit?

 

[Billy Dean]

You won't ever get Ross having the same fitness levels of Lallana. he doesn't have the right physicality. But it's that same physicality that gives him his uniqueness, if that makes sense. He's never going to be the player we all want him to be, but that's probably got more to do with our expectations rather than the lad himself. We need to find the best position for him within the team structure; how best to utilise the special qualities that he has. I'm hoping that Koeman is the man to do that. Then it's up to Ross to apply himself. As you say mate, it's a pivotal season for him.

Your analogy with Mane and Tadic is interesting. You're the stat person so can probably correct me if I'm wrong, but I'd imagine that, Leicester apart, Southampton probably had a good a record as anybody post Christmas last season.

Yes that is true, Lallana is a naturally fitter lad and Cleverley is probably the one closest to that, ie not the quickest but can run all day. However Ross can certainly get fitter and stronger and I think that it will benefit him. There is every chance that we see the best from Ross after Christmas this year as he struggles to cope with Koeman's physical demands and wanting more consistency from him.

You are absolutely right about finding a position for him. I personally think in a midfield 3 with 1 sitting is probably where he would thrive most. I do also think though, we need to get the rest of the team sorted before we see the best of Ross too, he needs insurance behind and options in front. I think we are a left sided/creative player short if Bolasie plays the other side. Over time I also think Barry could do with being phased out for someone who is more physical. Barkley alongside say a Sissoko & Gueye with say a Tadic/Mata, Bolasie and Lukaku up front would be explosive.

Do you think he's bulked up too much muscle-wise? If you look at him in his breakout season he was a lot more lithe and could go on those long breaks upfield which he doesn't seem to do any more.

 

[Barnfred 55]

Do you think he's bulked up too much muscle-wise? If you look at him in his breakout season he was a lot more lithe and could go on those long breaks upfield which he doesn't seem to do any more.

Certainly towards the end of last season when he looked very lethargic. He'd turn players but wasn't able to get away from them.

I commented in a post earlier that I saw some of that old pace and power come back into his game at the weekend, which indicates that his current fitness regime is starting to take effect. Let's hope so anyway.

 

[catcherintherye]

Do you think he's bulked up too much muscle-wise? If you look at him in his breakout season he was a lot more lithe and could go on those long breaks upfield which he doesn't seem to do any more.

I am not sure, but possibly. I think building muscle mass is ok but it looks as if that side of the previous regime wasn't planned, it was very much laissez fair and left to players. He will have specific instructions now. Klopp has gone and got the best fitness coaches from Bayern Munich, so it's no coincidence how fit Liverpool are. It is a science.

Maybe he could stop bulking up and get a bit leaner. I think his aerobic fitness has dropped though which is the core issue. However that does take time to build up in a manner that doesn't cause stress and muscle injury. Koeman will get him fitter but it will probably only be after Christmas we will see the benefits of this.

The reason I don't think it's centrally the muscle build as his performance just dropped off post March last year. He was like a different player. Compare his performances at Home to Newcastle, or earlier in the season against Villa or Bournemouth to later in the season. If muscle gets built it doesn't get built post November. I think the lack of fitness caught up with him and that is the central concern I had.

 

[Barnfred 55]

Come next season, do you think Gueye will be the deepest of our midfield three? Or do you think he becomes the B2B and we need to sign somebody new to sit?

I think he'll be BTB and we'll bring somebody else in as holding. The more I see of William Carvalho the more I like. I think he's one of those players whose performances go under the radar but I've concentrated on him when I've watched recent games he's been involved in, and his contribution is huge. His positioning is excellent plus his distribution isn't too shabby either. Whether he'd come to a club like Everton is a different matter but he's the type of player we should be in for if we're to move on to the next level.

 

[Ballyfermot]

Romelu Lukaku believes Ross Barkley could become “the best player in English football” if he adds more goals and assists to his game.

Barkley, who will be 23 in December, was told by Ronald Koeman last month that he is no longer at an age where he is considered merely as potential.

Barkley lost his place in Koeman’s starting XI at Manchester City and was dropped by England before he volleyed Everton into a 2-0 lead during the victory over West Ham United on Sunday.

His performance at Goodison Park earned Barkley the man-of-the-match award and Lukaku – who turned supplier having scored Everton’s first himself – later gave an honest appraisal of the midfielder’s current standing within the game.

“I think the manager has been hard on him because he knows that Ross has the quality, he just needs to be more productive,” Lukaku said.

“He has got loads of qualities, especially in the number 10 positions. You expect goals and assists from them. He was productive today and that is what we need from him. When you see the firepower we have up front, we need more from Ross. We need more from myself as well and we are demanding from each other. That is the only way you can reach the top.”

Lukaku says that he has discussed what he expects from Barkley on the fields of Everton’s Finch Farm training ground.

“When we do the finishing or have the small games, I will just tell him to keep his eyes open and play with his head up. He can see much more then, he can see where the space is and he can play the pass or shoot himself. The decision making has to be better. When he gets that, you are talking about a fantastic player.”

Lukaku went further, outlining what Barkley must do if he is to develop into an established England international.

“At the minute, the players who play in his position - like Dele Alli and Wayne Rooney - they have got goals in them. I think Ross has to get more goals and more assists than he has been doing. If he does that, then he is going to play.

“Ross, to me, if he fulfils his potential, you are talking about the best player in English football. He has got everything. He has got power, he has got technique, he can shoot with both feet. He is fast, he can pick a pass. The manager [Koeman] has been working with him so he makes the right decisions on the pitch. Who is going to stop him?”

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football...ross-barkley-to-become-best-player-in-englis/

Koemans work on calling him out and laying the tuff love on him is just the medicene he needs. The fact that Koemans 100% right helps. Refreshing saying it as it is compared to last few seasons. I've got a feeling about Ross in the Chelsea game.

 

[Jamo Martinez]

You won't ever get Ross having the same fitness levels of Lallana. he doesn't have the right physicality. But it's that same physicality that gives him his uniqueness, if that makes sense. He's never going to be the player we all want him to be, but that's probably got more to do with our expectations rather than the lad himself. We need to find the best position for him within the team structure; how best to utilise the special qualities that he has. I'm hoping that Koeman is the man to do that. Then it's up to Ross to apply himself. As you say mate, it's a pivotal season for him.

Your analogy with Mane and Tadic is interesting. You're the stat person so can probably correct me if I'm wrong, but I'd imagine that, Leicester apart, Southampton probably had a good a record as anybody post Christmas last season.

Good shout. Guardian reporter doing the minute by minute report the other day said something similar in a more laconic way.

Something along the lines of people should enjoy Ross Barkley for what he is instead of complaining about what he isn't.

 

[johnjoeefc]

Just wanted to raise a point about Ross, I live in South of England so dont get to go to Goodison very often. But I watch every game on TV and while I agree Ross has been frustrating to watch this season, I cant believe the harrasment he gets at Goodison.

For example after his goal on Sunday he had the ball in an advanced position on the pitch and you could just hear tens or hundreds of fans rushing him, trying to tell him what to do or getting restless with him on the ball. Let the lad do his thing, this behaviour really needs to stop if we want to see the best of Ross in my opinion. Players play better when they can get on with their game not with hundreds of haters on their case all the time.

 

[toffeejack]

Good shout. Guardian reporter doing the minute by minute report the other day said something similar in a more laconic way.

Something along the lines of people should enjoy Ross Barkley for what he is instead of complaining about what he isn't.

british mentality imo

 

[Timak]

Good shout. Guardian reporter doing the minute by minute report the other day said something similar in a more laconic way.

Something along the lines of people should enjoy Ross Barkley for what he is instead of complaining about what he isn't.

Exactly, there was a moment around half time where he took a clearance out of the air on the halfway line under pressure from Noble, turned and was away and about 10m clear of Noble before he reacted racing towards their defence. There are so few players in world football who can do that.

Guardian quote "Barkley is on one here, and what a thrill it is to see. I have literally no idea why people can’t be arsed enjoying him for what he is, rather than bitching about what he isn’t -plenty time for him to sort the rest and even if he doesn’t, so much of what’s so good about football coalesces in his game."

 

[maccavennie]

Struggled to realise he was even playing today.

 

[Saaby]

Struggled to realise he was even playing today.

The same could be said about many others.