The EU deal

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I voted twice to stay in or join Europe not for an EU - like you at the time I listened to the propaganda of staying or joining got it wrong twice by voting yes, ask yourself this if we were independent now would you vote to join a organisation that is a sinking ship as the euro is crashing, migration is uncontrolled all 28 countries have to vote yes to pass a bill?
Answer is NO so I am older, and wiser to know not to get conned twice in my lifetime !
 
Pienaar's gloves said:
It isn't real. A nation is an imagined political community.

I can't think of anything positive that it has ever achieved.

I've more in common with people in other parts of the world than some people on my street, never mind this country.
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Nationalism is the only thing that overthrows or stops Empires.
 
Cypher said:
Dude that's the 2nd time you have tried to say I was wrong about history and the 2nd time I have shown you direct quotes to back up what I said.
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Well here's a third time. You're wrong about Turkey's position too.

To be fair, the Germans negotiated long and hard with Turkey and were reportedly offering Turkey the right to organise the liberated Turko-Tartar areas of the Soviet Union into a federation. There is no doubt that the German ambassador in Ankara, von Papen, and an influential group in the German Foreign Office had attempted to secure Turkish collaboration during the war.

The Turks were obviously impressed, and military leaders such as Cakmak were more than receptive. It could've happened. Unfortunately though, the huge losses in Stalingrad destroyed the German plans. The Turks changed their minds about how wise becoming part of the Axis would be, opting to maintain their neutral position until pretty much the end of the war, when they sided with the Allies.

Your quotes are selective and may well appear to back up your argument. They don't change the truth.
 
Rob17896 said:
Muslims as with the word Christians describes a great mix of people with many sub-sets with greatly differing views. You can't be that general. Christianity and Islam have had horrible things done in their name. You are implying an alliance that never existed.
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Erm, weren't we asked not to go down these roads within an EU based thread. Come on lads, I know it's easily done but back to the subject eh.........VOTE INDEPENDENCE.........
 

daylightrobber said:
Well here's a third time. You're wrong about Turkey's position too.

To be fair, the Germans negotiated long and hard with Turkey and were reportedly offering Turkey the right to organise the liberated Turko-Tartar areas of the Soviet Union into a federation. There is no doubt that the German ambassador in Ankara, von Papen, and an influential group in the German Foreign Office had attempted to secure Turkish collaboration during the war.

The Turks were obviously impressed, and military leaders such as Cakmak were more than receptive. It could've happened. Unfortunately though, the huge losses in Stalingrad destroyed the German plans. The Turks changed their minds about how wise becoming part of the Axis would be, opting to maintain their neutral position until pretty much the end of the war, when they sided with the Allies.

Your quotes are selective and may well appear to back up your argument. They don't change the truth.
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Sorry are you trying to make my point because it certainly seems like it.
 
Cypher said:
Of course I was being a bit glib but the point stands. When I said the Muslims what I was referring to was the remnants of the old Ottoman Empire, modern day Turkey.
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Cypher said:
Of course I was being a bit glib but the point stands. When I said the Muslims what I was referring to was the remnants of the old Ottoman Empire, modern day Turkey.
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Oh No! We are about to be invaded by 110 million of them. It was in the papers.
 
I'm not voting, wish there was an option to say " I'm not remotely arsed what you rich people seek to achieve from this".
 
Anyway lads, the pound has slipped two days in a row, suggesting that the finance lads think Brexit is going to win, and now the European shares are dropping suggesting that everyone knows they are in the crapper......oh and it's been suggested that the USA economy is getting worse so everyone will be stuffed. So with a reduced currency and free from the constraints of the EU this could be a great time for the UK to make merry, and put the Germans and French into the poor house at the same time.......
 

peteblue said:
Anyway lads, the pound has slipped two days in a row, suggesting that the finance lads think Brexit is going to win, and now the European shares are dropping suggesting that everyone knows they are in the crapper......oh and it's been suggested that the USA economy is getting worse so everyone will be stuffed. So with a reduced currency and free from the constraints of the EU this could be a great time for the UK to make merry, and put the Germans and French into the poor house at the same time.......
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And this just about sums up everything that is wrong with Brexit. Why on earth would you get pleasure from that? As someone who has family living in both Germany and France I actually find this attitude disgusting.
 

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