Roberto Martinez Discussion - Including Live Poll (Poll Reset 1st May)

[StuBarlow]

I'm at this stage too myself now. I've wanted Martinez out since around Xmas but up until now even I wouldn't have agreed with your post, but I do now.

It's got to the point where things really can't get any worse. The team is lacking direction, motivation and most importantly, passion.

Get some kind of combination in of the backroom Evertonians, Royle / Sheedy / Ferguson / Unsworth, and see what they can do for the last month. A change of pace could do wonders for the team. And it's morale. Couple of league games before Liverpool, then maybe grab a result at the Pit and confidence going into the semi would be huge.

At the moment if things stay as they are it'll be the same drab, lacklustre and unmotivated mess we've seen for the last few months. We'll likely be equally as poor against Palace and Saints, get dry bummed by Liverpool just before the semi, and it'll be a car crash trip to Wembley.

It's a roll of the dice but seriously, what have we got to lose considering how things are at the moment?

This'll also give the board time to start sounding out a full time replacement for the summer without the guilt of 'going behind Bobby's back'.

Yeah I agree. I have been anti-Martinez for a while but Man Utd was my tipping point. I think sacking him and having a caretaker will be the impetus we need to get a few results.

 

[eddy]

I honestly thought I would wake up today and he would be gone. I think keeping him is damaging the club now. Players will want out
values of those players will have dropped massively, simply due to results and league table. Surely enough is enough for Moshiri, this season is done make the change now and lets move forward trying to win our final games in a convincing manner.

Hardest job in the world would be convincing Lukaku to stay, I believe it would have been achievable if we had sacked Martinez after yesterdays debacle, now I think he will leave asap. I cant understand why we did not act earlier, it was so clear to see months ago Martinez was moving us backwards, he was not good enough to keep Wigan up, what does that tell us ?

ps were is dave would love to hear his opinion ?

 

[Abertonian]

This is exactly the sort of post ive been asking for from people who want change.

A really well thought out brief on the type of manager + individual players + timeline for change and reasonable targets.

Well played. Cant fault it at all really...

Just to add my own opinion:

1-- The spine is attractive for a new manager. He has there,Stones--Barkley--Lukaku (lets assume the players see Mourinho or Loew come in and are excited and stay).

Those 3 are alll potentially world class, but at the moment it is potential as none of them have the ability of the superstars alone (not even lukaku as you say he still needs to improve). What we need is to have players around them in the spine to improve the team and also this will in turn compliment them and aid their development.

Martinez has done well here for me in playing them as much as possible. I firmly believe that they are now all better players for the trust he has placed in them but now they need to be taken on to the next level.

Keeper -- Dominant keeper is needed. Someone who the defence, manager and even the fans can trust. We saw the difference with Howard and Robles, imagine having a truly top keeper at the back. Breeds confidence.

Centre back -- Totally agree on Jagielka here, sound defender but not a leader in the mould of any of the top premier league winning captains over the years. We need a top player here with organizational and leadership skills. Someone who can compliment Stones and aid his development also.

Defensive/Centre midfield -- We basically have a terrier in McCarthy who cost £13mil and effectively does the donkey work for a 35 year old player and also an international player who is frequently injured. The game these days requires a truly top central pairing at the highest level and for all of the praise on Barry, he is not the way forward. We need to bring in a superstar midfield general here who can control games and who the opposition are worried about facing.

I think with those 3 signings we would have the basis of a very solid spine. It was good to read about Cillisen (though i think we could do better) and Manolas in the press as these are the types we need to dramatically improve the team.

Mourinho came into Chelsea and immediately focused on the spine with Essien etc coming in and doing for them precisely what we need now. Loew also came into the Germany job and the first thing he did was bring in solid players to compliment the attacking play Klinsmann had adopted.

Having said all that, i think Mourinho for example would want to change the full backs as well. They just arent solid enough defensively and also of course the left side as well as options from the bench.

Also, giving one of these top managers the reigns and a 3 year plan could be a wise move and attract top players +keep our stars on board. I am certain that we are attractive enough and we have the money to develop the squad.

The only thing holding me back really is that i am keen to see if Martinez with money could do all this himself in the summer....

Im not opposed to a top manager coming in (would be foolish not to recognise the benefits) but it would depend on who they were, what the plan was and what changes they would make (all hypothetical of course).

Was all going so well until the Martinez bit. Your assessment of the team I largely agree with though.

 

[Zatara]

@Zatara if we do give him money what will stop him from buying more players in positions we don't need!? He's stocked heavy in cm he's bought 3 right wingers with one already at the club, we have been crying out for.a pienaar replacement for 3 seasons and he hasn't brought one in? He's only just got a backup striker who still may not be as good as Kone for Gods sake l!! He hasn't addressed the keeper situation, we have 1 decent right back in the squad and no competition for Barkley

Well, i see he's spent on;

Cheap stopgaps (McGeady/Alcaraz etc)
Young players (Galloway/Holgate etc)
Old players (Eto'o /Barry)
Long term players (Lukaku/McCarthy/Deulofeu)

I judge him on the ones he has spent actual money on as these days anything under £10mil buys nothing or is considered a risk. Of course we can discuss Leicester and other clubs but these signings could be compared to Deulofeu or Besic amounts which were great buys also.

For me, he's bought Lukaku,McCarthy and Mori (Niasse lets see) and all three have been good buys. Thats the area were shopping in now and i think we wont see any cheap signings this summer, just a handful of top players.

 

[Igrok]

Fine. My point is that of the many people I sit amongst very few are at the point where they want him sacked now. A forum reflects its contributors, not all Evertonians.

Over 28,000 people are signed up to GOT.....only 1800 feel the need to vote. That's quite telling as it doesn't even reflect the noise being made on the Forum

Trust me you dont want to know this stat mate if 28000 people voted...

 

[Woolly Blue]

Have you got the "wages" info that @Woolly Blue put up or perhaps he could post them again here?

It was widely reported that Whelan had cut costs by 25-30% under Martinez there when other clubs were increasing their budgets.

Also, there must be similarities between Moyes/Bruce overachieving playing % football and Martinez "long term" vision of "possession based football".

I wonder if he also attempted to change their squad more in line with this but eventually failed because he couldnt sign the players to fit into this style on their budget.

Thing is with Martinez, we all knew what we were getting when he joined. Someone with a long term vision who would make changes long term ro achieve this vision with short term goals as secondary. 3 years may seem a lot and in football terms it is but im not sure if he needs certain players in to be successful and hasnt been able to sign them so far.

Who knows....

Zat

The "cutting costs" thing is an urban myth. What actually happened was that Whelan refused to keep increasing the wage bill, so the effect of that was that Wigan's wage bill remained broadly static, meaning they'd slowly drift back behind the pack.

Wigan Athletic Wage Bills :-

2006 : 19.9 million
2007 : 27.5
2008 : 38.4
2009 : 42.2
2010 : 39.4
2011 : ~38
2012 : ~38
2013 : ~44

You're very welcome.

 

[Caolam]

I can't believe that Moshiri has put hundreds of millions into Everton and is thinking to himself - I like the cut of this managers jib, I like where he is taking my very expensive plaything, we were 5th then 11th now he has brought us to 14th. He is a manager on the move.
Moshiri, I believe is thinking - if I had wanted a Championship club then I would have bought a Championship club.

 

[Igrok]

History teaches us : When an army's failing, the general's usually to blame, not the foot soldiers

History doesnt teach us shoite mate...

 

[a bell maul]

History doesnt teach us shoite mate...

...maybe not you

 

[Zatara]

Zat

The "cutting costs" thing is an urban myth. What actually happened was that Whelan refused to keep increasing the wage bill, so the effect of that was that Wigan's wage bill remained broadly static, meaning they'd slowly drift back behind the pack.

I see, thanks for that. Wonder where the 25% came from then? Possibly 25% lower than other clubs back then?

 

[Igrok]

...maybe not you

I speak for the mankind mate...

 

[Thomasc]

We're heading to Kipper territory on here....its not difficult to be reasonable with other posters...just saying like.

What did I write that was in your opinion unreasonable? I haven't criticised him, insulted him or IMO been unreasonable in pointing out that the results severely damage his point.

 

[Woolly Blue]

For me, its definitely not "fear of change", quite the opposite. The 'beautiful football' mantra needs players who are capable of playing his system and style and he needs to bring in these types with money (which he has never had enough of relative to the job and the competition).

I just want him to have the opportunity to spend this summer and see how we get on next season.

If anything the 'fear of change' is more like a 'fear of relegation' from a lot of posters here. I hope that Martinez can prove these people wrong and also that they will regain their faith in him once we have better results...

Who knows what happens next but theres so much hatred on here for a manager who has us in mid table which is just where Moyes has us before and lets face it weve done nothing for 20 years....

Its all very disappointing and we need to support the players and the manager and hope we win some games including the derby and the semi....

The team will get all the support they need for the semi mate.

You have much more knowledge of players and managers in the world than I have, but I've seen a lot of Everton managers come and go, and, baring a minor miracle, Martinez will be joining the lists of Bingham, Lee and, though it pains me to say it, Harvey. They all had half decent records at some time in their managerial careers at Everton, but, like Martinez, ultimately, they flattered to deceive. Martinez has had nigh on three seasons now, and we've had one good season in the league, and two poor ones.

He might have got away with that under the old regime, but I can't see him getting away with it now.

 

[a bell maul]

I speak for the mankind mate...

 

[Ashtonian]

If the fans are speaking now at the match then he won't be here next season. It would be a little bit deluded to think otherwise now.
There would be no actual plan going forward otherwise, keeping a manager who us massively underperformed for 2 years, fans are demanding him go and even the only time he has been given real money he comes back with a player barely good enough so far for 5 minute cameos.