Roberto Martinez Discussion - Including Live Poll (Poll Reset 1st May)

[matty1878]

I was jesting Matty

I'm fairly sure nobody thinks I want Bobby to stay

Ah apologies mate!

 

[jinkyali]

What I cannot get my head around is some of the absurd individual mistakes we've seen at the back under Martinez.
Such a large collection of brain farts, for what are supposed to be amongst the best professional players in the game.
I suggest whatever happens with the manager we get in a top sports psychologist to do some mentality and focus work with the players.
Success is driven by mentality, the best teams are focused and have strategies to refocus when that focus is lost or when setbacks occur on the pitch.
Case in point the most consistently best sporting team in the world in the All Blacks did a lot of work around this area with Blue and Red light thinking, employing in game strategies to refocus so that they are at the top of their game so that when crucial events happen, they don't make errors.

There is a serious mental fragility issue with this team, if we concede a goal we are so prone to concede another within the next 5-10 minutes.
The team and coaching staff need to set up strategies to stop this happening, i.e. play risk adverse passes for the next 5-10 minutes, getting people behind the ball and pressing hard to win the ball back.
We see this again and again when defending leads, there's no common sense where senior players and management are saying, "just hold onto the ball, play it safe as we don't need to take risks. Lose it, you win it back asap, don't give them the time to apply pressure".
We're a possession team, we no doubt do this all the time in training, why is it such a hard thing to do?

Ill discipline.
Mistakes aren't frowned upon.
Comfort zone for the players.

We make mistakes because the players are allowed to; it goes unpunished.

 

[TheHumbleEgg]

Ill discipline.
Mistakes aren't frowned upon.
Comfort zone for the players.

We make mistakes because the players are allowed to; it goes unpunished.

...he 'encourages' mistakes, by his own admission.

And it's perhaps one of the only things he's appears adept at.

 

[Toffeeslam]

I was jesting Matty and @Toffeeslam

I'm fairly sure nobody thinks I want Bobby to stay

Apologies sir

Now how do I put that spat out tea back into my mug ??

 

[TheHumbleEgg]

By senior player, I guess we are talking Osman here.

Well, maybe then. Also it sounds more like Jagielka was trying to wind it down rather than leading - but if this is true, and I'm very sceptical, it sounds like kids behaviour and pathetic.

A year ago, what's changed (staff aside)

'There are other issues that often arise when a team is not getting results: claims of unhappy senior players and personality clashes. Samuel Eto’o, who was at the club for only the briefest of spells, is understood to have been a central figure in training ground disputes.

Concerns have been raised over the players’ fitness. Once a strength of Everton teams driven hard by Moyes, there have been times this season when the same players have looked sluggish and heavy-legged.

Some blame it on a softening of the spirit, on Martinez’s failure to take the appropriate action when there has been a dip in standards'.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...staff-left-club-turned-sour-Everton-boss.html

Not pleasant reading is it (never is in the MAIL like) but we're a year on and the same shiz...

 

[chazzle_dazzle]

A year ago, what's changed (staff aside)

'There are other issues that often arise when a team is not getting results: claims of unhappy senior players and personality clashes. Samuel Eto’o, who was at the club for only the briefest of spells, is understood to have been a central figure in training ground disputes.

Concerns have been raised over the players’ fitness. Once a strength of Everton teams driven hard by Moyes, there have been times this season when the same players have looked sluggish and heavy-legged.

Some blame it on a softening of the spirit, on Martinez’s failure to take the appropriate action when there has been a dip in standards'.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...staff-left-club-turned-sour-Everton-boss.html

Not pleasant reading is it (never is in the MAIL like) but we're a year on and the same shiz...

Crazy that being over a year ago and the same questions still being raised and asked. no smoke without fire in my eyes, something is definitely not right.

 

[oldblue]

The scoreline flattered ManU mate, we deserved a point, but the only reason we deserved a point was because they're a very average team. That United team has very little quality in it, but they worked hard and showed a fair amount of energy.

We more than matched them for energy in the first 20 minutes, but lost our way after that. If we'd been beat by a good United side, you couldn't really complain, but the lack of effort and ideas happens all too often.

We'll look a better side when Barry's back, but, at best, we're treading water at the moment.

Agree they don't look as threatening as United teams in the past but they've had worse and we've only gone there and looked likely winners on a couple of occasions I can remember. It's a horrible place to play. And I think we really didn't let them play which is one of the things I've been hoping for.
Barry is a miss. And with his age that's a worry. But it's shown up as well that the quality doesn't run as deep as it can. Rom and Lennon looked flat and they're allowed off games. But who steps up then?

 

[oldblue]

So you're talking about an actual age rather than a range?! Like, if a player is a centre half they must be 28 otherwise they're no good? I'm not sure how well that's going to work out in the long run if we need to keep replacing players every summer once they're no longer 'optimum age'.

Nope I'm talking about an age range. And it tends to be later for centre halves and keepers

 

[technojoe]

Anyone got that pic of Bobby's face photo shopped on the cartoon with the room on fire saying "this is fine"...........

Found it!

 

[Rothanaa]

Where to begin? I was a huge fan of Martinez when he started here. It is obvious that he is clearly out of his depth. The man has improved our attack but our defence has gone downhill.

Martinez has had some decent cup runs- Europa, Fa cup & league cup but that isn't enough. I believe his first season was a fluke, he inherited a decent team BUILT by MOYES. He is building a nice young squad but we should be higher than we are on the table. I cannot see him getting sacked yet.. I guess it all depends on the fa cup. A new defensive coach is a must.

 

[Lanolin]

Nope I'm talking about an age range. And it tends to be later for centre halves and keepers

Yeah I could kind of get that you may think Robles and Mori weren't at the optimum age (although it should be pointed out that Robles is older than Butland, De Gea and Courtois, and very much in the same age range as Mignolet, Forster, etc. Also we're not giving ourselves much of a range for centre half if 25 is too young and 32 is too old but nevermind). You said only five out of the 10 though. That means you think 3 of the others aren't at their peak. I'm guessing you think Baines might be too old to play full back at 31, but I honestly can't think of any other position where a player isn't at their peak between 25-29, like all the other players i mentioned.

 

[oldblue]

7 of the 10 are regular starters

6 signed by Martinez, 2 at least given contract renewals. That's at least 8 out of 10 chosen by the manager in the past 2 years for his squad.

So maybe he hasn't developed the squad at all.

Even though I'd argue with your breakdown that probably highlights the issues in the squad he was left with pretty well

 

[orly]

Yeah I could kind of get that you may think Robles and Mori weren't at the optimum age (although it should be pointed out that Robles is older than Butland, De Gea and Courtois, and very much in the same age range as Mignolet, Forster, etc. Also we're not giving ourselves much of a range for centre half if 25 is too young and 32 is too old but nevermind). You said only five out of the 10 though. That means you think 3 of the others aren't at their peak. I'm guessing you think Baines might be too old to play full back at 31, but I honestly can't think of any other position where a player isn't at their peak between 25-29, like all the other players i mentioned.

It's also ignoring the fact that some of the best centre halves this country has produced in recent years - like Terry and Ferdinand - were in regular football and decent from a very young age.

But hey, 'inexperienced'. Sigh.

 

[bluewally]

Even though I'd argue with your breakdown that probably highlights the issues in the squad he was left with pretty well

So he is responsible for 8 of the 10 listed and it's still not his fault

 

[oldblue]

Yeah I could kind of get that you may think Robles and Mori weren't at the optimum age (although it should be pointed out that Robles is older than Butland, De Gea and Courtois, and very much in the same age range as Mignolet, Forster, etc. Also we're not giving ourselves much of a range for centre half if 25 is too young and 32 is too old but nevermind). You said only five out of the 10 though. That means you think 3 of the others aren't at their peak. I'm guessing you think Baines might be too old to play full back at 31, but I honestly can't think of any other position where a player isn't at their peak between 25-29, like all the other players i mentioned.

Baines is lookin very much past his peak. And Mori and Robles regardless of age are very much inexperienced at this level.
The issue is highlighted perfectly though if you look at the age range at the back when Moyes left and how much experience was coming through. It's the one area you shouldn't be left without experience.