Everton and Martinez are to blame should Lukaku leave

[bluewally]

Just admit we've improved going forward...I know it's impossible to do.

I do not think our defensive weaknesses are down to our attacking. It's just been crap defending by our defensive players...the lot of them. Which falls on the manager.

I think it has. I think he forsakes elements of defence and favours attack as some of his comments have alluded to.

 

[davek]

Won 5 away league games last season and this season

Of course you're including tough trips to Carlisle, Bournemouth, Boro, Reading and Barnsley

Ok, we'll win more away gams than last season - secured on Sunday.

 

[ilikecheese]

Well this time last season we sat in 14th, so to be sitting in 12th after the same amount of games this season has me doing cartwheels.

2015 goals scored 36 goals against 41 29 games 31 points
2016 goals scored 51 goals against 41 29 games 38 points

Proof @bluewally...we have improved year on year.

 

[Goat]

Proof @bluewally...we have improved year on year.

Well no.

2014 goals scored 43 goals against 30 29 games 54 points

 

[ilikecheese]

Well no.

2014 goals scored 43 goals against 30 29 games 54 points

It is an improvement over last season though...and our attacking has been the best it's been.

 

[Goat]

It is an improvement over last season though...and our attacking has been the best it's been.

You mean Rom has entered beast mode?

 

[Ihaters]

It's about the defence...or are you suddenly stepping on the brakes on that? The goals conceded have been down to lack of concentration, not systems. Ergo: no need to make sweeping changes...according to the logic anyway.

Rubbish, same players that used to concentrate for Moyes and concentrated for the first year under Martinez, havn't suddenly become mind wondering morons with no idea what they are doing. You can see they are being told not to press and its a shocking choice. You can see that because the rare occasions they are told to press, suddenly every defender looks like they can defend again.

Ignoring that though... Suppose all the quality players we have are suddenly 3rd division players with no ability to concentrate on the game at hand, why has he not replaced them? He's had both money and 6 transfer windows.

He's either not bought correctly, or not played the squad correctly, because we are bottom half of the league... still. Despite our attack which he has improved greatly, he has taken a team regularly in the mix for the European spots and made them utterly inconsequential, taken a tem most clubs feared visiting and made them one to look forward to playing.

No amount of deflection can alter that we are doing poorly and are not what we were even a couple of years ago and a new manager could well take the squad we have and make it do what its meant to do far better.

I still.. despite your most annoying efforts to convert me, want Martinez to stay and sort it out, but he has to do sooo much better, he needs to find a solution to the damage he's done and will continue to do at the back and resolve it asap.

One more season for me, purely because I like the football we play going forwards. I don't like it when we look at the table and are not even in the top half though and that is more important to me.

ps I'm assuming that not winning a cup is the same as coming 17th i.e failure?

 

[toffeejack]

Are you @davek in disguise?

No-one in their right mind would accept finishing 17th if we won a trophy. No-one. Tenth maybe, but 17th? Don't be ridiculous - why on Earth do you think so many people are still moaning!

And we have CLEARLY regressed. It's plain to see, in handy table format. We are 12th. We have lost a near-record number of home games. If this is NOT regression in your eyes, I am genuinely baffled as to what would be.

ha, if you read the vaults you'll see people saying it. we haven't won anything for over 20 years, of course fans will say it - we don't win anything for finishing 2nd or lower. success is about winning things, not getting more money. There's little difference between 10th and 17th.

i said we hadn't regressed from last season. We were horrific last season in league and cups.

 

[ilikecheese]

You mean Rom has entered beast mode?

Barkley's 8 league goals and Lennon's 5 shouldn't be sniffed at.

 

[Deleted member 24970]

You say he should show the club respect, yet thats what he did.

Showing no respect would have been him saying "this club are utter 12th finishing no marks".

Instead he talked about himself and his goals.

You might recall nobody had an issue with him saying that he wanted to play CL with Everton last year.

So in 12months he went from saying he wanted to play in the CL with us, to saying he might have to move in order to get CL football.

What do you think has changed in those 12months mate?

The same way mirallas got bollocked by us for saying the same ? Or fellaini for the same when he had big clubs after him ?
There is no doubt he should play champions league football, right now under bobby were not good enough, what romelu said was essentially a come and get me plea to anybody with the money and CL footy. My gripe is not with Romelu and his ability, he is a machine, the gripe is that he should of just said i want CL football with everton, if anything changed my agent will deal with it. What he said was i wnat CL football next year, then basically back tracked a little and said my agent is dealing with this now. Im sorry mate there is a way of doing it right. Transfer request to the club behind closed doors would be fine, same as john stones, he wanted out and handed in a transfer request without using his international duty to flap his gums.

If his decision is final then why bother playing him after the semi if we lose ? Give niasse a crack at getting match fit because lukaku will be off regardless. If we win the semi final the his instructions should simply be, get us the FA Cup and then go play CL with our blessing and gratitude. Honestly mate i dont see why people have just accepted it when we complained for years over felli and recently Mirallas - mirallaswanted away from bobby if rumours are true - just rumours i accept.

 

[Ihaters]

How is it 'not improving' when we've won more away games than last season, scored more goals, and gone way further in both cups?

Maybe we play some games at home too?, have a leaky defence and play in a league.

 

[Goat]

The same way mirallas got bollocked by us for saying the same ? Or fellaini for the same when he had big clubs after him ?
There is no doubt he should play champions league football, right now under bobby were not good enough, what romelu said was essentially a come and get me plea to anybody with the money and CL footy. My gripe is not with Romelu and his ability, he is a machine, the gripe is that he should of just said i want CL football with everton, if anything changed my agent will deal with it. What he said was i wnat CL football next year, then basically back tracked a little and said my agent is dealing with this now. Im sorry mate there is a way of doing it right. Transfer request to the club behind closed doors would be fine, same as john stones, he wanted out and handed in a transfer request without using his international duty to flap his gums.

If his decision is final then why bother playing him after the semi if we lose ? Give niasse a crack at getting match fit because lukaku will be off regardless. If we win the semi final the his instructions should simply be, get us the FA Cup and then go play CL with our blessing and gratitude. Honestly mate i dont see why people have just accepted it when we complained for years over felli and recently Mirallas - mirallaswanted away from bobby if rumours are true - just rumours i accept.

Ive never complained about Felli or Mirallas wanting away, nor did I complain about Stones, hell I even saw why Rooney, Lescott and others left.

 

[willo30]

The improvement this season has come from the level of performance going forward and the extended cup runs. And we've improved in our away PL form.

We've improved in our attacking play massively. No question. We've improved in our ability to play KO encounters - and the LC and FA Cup SF slots underline that.

We've been atrocious in home league form. To just flatly say there's 'no improvement' is too crude to encompass the whole season.

We've improved on last season yes but I am on about an improved squad he got 72 points with has not. The cups yes but he had 8 away wins first season and he may not match that again. Home form you agree. So with a better squad is it not unreasonable to expect better results or was his first season a fluke?

 

[The Esk]

But this is merely to side step the point. The coach you believe should replace Martinez would only prove to be more proficient by utilizing the quality material he walks into the club and takes charge of - to use it in a more creative way. How else could your point about this squad being good enough, but the manager not, be confirmed?

In any case, it doesn't, in and of itself, explain why Martinez couldn't have the funds to do exactly what you feel needs doing. The only way to argue against it would be to explain how the players you talk of there (all either brought in or through by RM) were disenchanted by his management and ambition and that all evidence points away from Martinez being capable of using those funds well enough to both purchase good players and attain CL level points from them. You cant on both issues.

It's very clear Dave, Martinez does not have all the skills to manage this great club of ours. So whether it's this squad or an enhanced squad it makes no difference, I don't want him here.

He has skills, he's not all bad, but he's lacking in so many areas he's never going to cut it.

With a management team that can convince Lukaku of meeting his CL ambitions and an enhanced squad, perhaps we can keep hold of Lukaku. We definitely won't though if Martinez stays in place.

 

[Goat]

We've improved on last season yes but I am on about an improved squad he got 72 points with has not. The cups yes but he had 8 away wins first season and he may not match that again. Home form you agree. So with a better squad is it not unreasonable to expect better results or was his first season a fluke?

We are talking about a man that took a squad of players that finished 6th, 5th, 11th and 12th***, whilst buying 22 players for 100m.

Improvement?

LOL