Everton and Martinez are to blame should Lukaku leave

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Paul Bernard said:
What ? Raw talent yes, proven goalscorer yes, there are ways to ask for a move to a club matching your ambitions without waiting for international duty and basically selling your ass to whoever wants to buy you. Waiting for the 'out of context' BS.
We gave the lad a chance when mourinho said he wouldn't be good enough, he should at least show some respect for the club and keep his mouth shut. We all know his agent is good enough to get the move without him running his own mouth.
There are ways to move on mate, at least don't end it on a sour note.
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You say he should show the club respect, yet thats what he did.

Showing no respect would have been him saying "this club are utter 12th finishing no marks".

Instead he talked about himself and his goals.

You might recall nobody had an issue with him saying that he wanted to play CL with Everton last year.

So in 12months he went from saying he wanted to play in the CL with us, to saying he might have to move in order to get CL football.

What do you think has changed in those 12months mate?
 

davek said:
But this is merely to side step the point. The coach you believe should replace Martinez would only prove to be more proficient by utilizing the quality material he walks into the club and takes charge of - to use it in a more creative way. How else could your point about this squad being good enough, but the manager not, be confirmed?

In any case, it doesn't, in and of itself, explain why Martinez couldn't have the funds to do exactly what you feel needs doing. The only way to argue against it would be to explain how the players you talk of there (all either brought in or through by RM) were disenchanted by his management and ambition and that all evidence points away from Martinez being capable of using those funds well enough to both purchase good players and attain CL level points from them. You cant on both issues.
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Two of his golden boys Lukaku and stones have both now shown they want to move on. Del can't get a game so he probably isn't too happy either. Barkley I assume has more loyalty to the club but how long before he sees these lads moving on and decides it's time for him too.

If he can't even make top half with what he's got what evidence points towards him being able to get CL with supposedly better players?
 
davek said:
The improvement this season has come from the level of performance going forward and the extended cup runs. And we've improved in our away PL form.

We've improved in our attacking play massively. No question. We've improved in our ability to play KO encounters - and the LC and FA Cup SF slots underline that.

We've been atrocious in home league form. To just flatly say there's 'no improvement' is too crude to encompass the whole season.
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Improving without improving.

The Martinez way.
 
davek said:
The improvement this season has come from the level of performance going forward and the extended cup runs. And we've improved in our away PL form.

We've improved in our attacking play massively. No question. We've improved in our ability to play KO encounters - and the LC and FA Cup SF slots underline that.

We've been atrocious in home league form. To just flatly say there's 'no improvement' is too crude to encompass the whole season.
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Improvement this season?

Relatively easy cup runs don't point to improvement and we have 9 league wins this season that doesn't point to improvement either
 
4737carlin said:
Dont agree on that, I would take 17th and a FA cup any time, however if we do win the cup Martinez still has to be sacked as soon as the season is over.
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Ihaters said:
Because how we are set up doesn't work.. we are 12th you see.. which is not very good.. and that's because of the manager and the system .. which needs amending.. so we are not 12th anymore... and are in fact much higher than 12th... this allows us to buy and keep the sort of players that are good enough to move us away from 12th..

Or do you think Martinez has bought a load of duffers?
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It's about the defence...or are you suddenly stepping on the brakes on that? The goals conceded have been down to lack of concentration, not systems. Ergo: no need to make sweeping changes...according to the logic anyway.
 
mkrudden said:
Could and should have been us? In the CL?

Based on what? Paper? Pundits?

Must be all that experience and past success they have as a team eh?

With respect, it's a load of nonsense (the above point, not the article as a whole).
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Shouldn't of and shan't? What because of posters like you and Dave tell us so?

I know who's judgment I'd trust in that debate.

If you don't think we should be closer to CL than we are then you're wrong.
 
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Whistlin' Dixie said:
Do you think leicester's side next season, will be the exact same one as this season?

Yes, they'll have the same manager, but that manager'll only be in his 2nd season, don't forget. And they'll have another competition to play in.
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You answered your own question...twice.
 

bluewally said:
At what cost? Have our results improved? Has our defence suffered from focusing on attack?
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Just admit we've improved going forward...I know it's impossible to do.

I do not think our defensive weaknesses are down to our attacking. It's just been crap defending by our defensive players...the lot of them. Which falls on the manager.
 
ilikecheese said:
We have improved going forward...there is no doubt about that.
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Well this time last season we sat in 14th, so to be sitting in 12th after the same amount of games this season has me doing cartwheels.

2015 goals scored 36 goals against 41 29 games 31 points
2016 goals scored 51 goals against 41 29 games 38 points
 
davek said:
How is it 'not improving' when we've won more away games than last season, scored more goals, and gone way further in both cups?
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Won 5 away league games last season and this season

Of course you're including tough trips to Carlisle, Bournemouth, Boro, Reading and Barnsley
 

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