Roberto Martinez Discussion - Including Live Poll (Poll Reset 1st May)

Martinez in or out?

  • In

  • Out

  • Getting splinters eating cheese on toast on the fence

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DrEFC said:
You were using it as a defence to pooh pooh their concerns re: Martinez. I'm no where near a superfan, but yeah I have defended our fans when they get blamed for the teams poor performance- here, and on twitter. Certain players haven't performed but they have my support on the field, although I was quite wrong with Naismith. I used to get irrationally wound up by him. Anyhow, it's a lovely Sunday and the sun is shining, so perfect to stay indoors and watch the Derbies.
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Yep. That's roughly what I did.
And later added we are all capable of getting wrapped up in personality cults. In my opinion it's better to admit it to yourself when it happens and not try to draw others in with anything other than a balanced argument that at least understands the other side.
I'd be easily won round. I was sceptical in the first place. Now I believe he's worth sticking with despite flaws still there.
It is nice which is why I'm already out.
 
We kind of have the opposite problem to Utd's.

I'm sure they would love to sack Van Gaal now, but that would probably mean installing an interim manager. The interim manager would probably be Giggs, arguably the most successful manager in the clubs history. If he was to do well, maybe win the FA Cup, the fans would be calling for Giggs to be installed as the permanent manager.

The clubs owners clearly do not want Giggs as the next manager and they don't want to make a decision now that could ultimately pressures them into giving him the long term job, lets call it the Di Matteo scenario. The want emotion removed so they can make the best decision in the summer.

We on the other hand have a manager who is performing appallingly in the league but in Martinez's case, the failure to sack now could cause the long term problem. If he wins the FA Cup he gets the keys to the city, Everton do not sack manager who win FA Cups, they go down in folklore. But the vast majority of fans are terrified by a fourth Martinez season, it looks inevitable that this seasons league position will be worse than last seasons.

Liverpool were probably facing a similar problem with Dalgliesh. He was clearly not the right man to take them forward in the long term, but he was in an FA Cup Final against Chelsea in 2012. Win it and it would have been virtually impassible for the clubs owners to sack him.

So in Utd's case, it is probably the wise decision to wait until the end of the season because their interim could force the clubs hand.

In our case, it could be disastrous waiting until the end of the season. Martinez knows its the FA Cup or nothing. If he wins it, Moshiri will not be able to remove him, even if he wanted to. The momentum would be well and truly be behind Martinez, despite the dross served up in the league for the past two seasons.

We will still be an FA Cup semi final, even if we sack him now.
 

orly said:
I think Martinez will know his time is up - at this stage I don't think even the Cup will save him this summer, especially if Moshiri completes a mooted full takeover.

It's never a good thing to have a lame duck leader.
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Do you think he will get till the end of the season mate?
 
CahillsCornerFlag said:
You're spot on here mate. Some people will respond with faux outrage at the suggestion we don't want our team to win games or the cup, but it'll earn him another year and no mistake, and he could do some serious damage in that year.

Wigan fans would rather have come 17th and stayed in the prem having not won the cup, than be in League 1 right now. If us not winning the cup means arresting this hideous, not all that steady decline, then I want us dumped out so we can replace the manager and actually start building for next season with hope and confidence.
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Let's win the cup, then he can go. We really need a trophy and we really need a better manager.
 
evertony said:
Out of interest, in the unlikely event that we take 16-20 points for our remaining games and end up around the 60 point mark in a Europa qualifying berth, and win the FA Cup, would the 'out' vote have a rethink?
And, if we were to get just 4-10 points and go out in the semi would the 'in' vote change?

Or is it cast in stone, and more a vote on the managers persona and general ability rather than form?
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Well, it would change mine because that would be mean we win five or six of our remaining league games and with the Cup on the sideboard and Europe beckoning, a summer of major investment on the field would offer high hopes for the future.

You see, despite my comments since yesterday I desperately want Bobby to make it here.

Having changed my vote to "out" after Hammers I changed back to "in" after Chelsea.

And that is where my vote still remains......I have not changed back to "out".

But make no mistake.....Roberto Martinez's job is very much on the line and as things stand now, I can't see him being here at the end of this season, never mind the start of next.
 

Its pretty amazing how Martinez has managed to squander all that good will he built up in his first season.

He could walk on water in most fans eyes (including mine) after that season and now he has around 3 quatars of the fan base baying for his blood.

It's certainly been some fall from grace
 
I have not turned on him and still want him as manager. But I've always been consistent in saying 'd review my views come the end of the season.

What worries me is the consistency. We go from brilliant to awful on a week by week basis. When he first had the squad you have to forgive that. However nearly 3 years in and you do have to start to question whether we are ever going to be a consistent side. To get where we want to get too, we need a consistent manager. Without being harsh, we need performances like at Home to Chelsea most weeks, not once every 2-3 games.

The introduction of Moshiri does really change things. We are no longer languishing and falling behind off the field, happy to take a punt on a manager who may win us a trophy while discarding league form. The goalposts have moved and I think Moshiri will look to make a statement whatever way this summer. If you look at Arsenal Wenger kept his job down to league consistency over cup flamboyance. It doesn't bode well.

Yesterday second half was appalling really. Worse than Swansea at home, or West Brom, or Leicester. In all of those games I could see the game plan we were gong for, it was just poorly executed. Yesterday I had no idea what our front 4-5 players were meant to be doing. Outside of the back 5 and McCarthy you couldn't see what formation we were playing never mind the strategy.

I am flabbergasted really. I have no idea how a manager who outthinks Hiddink one week can look so inept the following week. In years gone by I think he'd have been forgiven the inconsistency, but with additional revenue available I don't think the lack of money available will be tolerated as an excuse much longer.
 
kithnou said:
Is that right? Scary indeed.
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Just read Ian Doyle's piece in the echo. Unless we win our remaining three league games we will record our worst ever points total at home in our history (if previous seasons points were calculated at three for a win). We also need to win all three games to level our lowest ever number of wins in our prem history.

How does this guy still have a job?
 
kithnou said:
what destination mate?
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Under Martinez we will hang around with the likes of Bournemouth, Watford, Palace with the leagues 2nd highest goalscorer.
Thats his limits, if Lukaku had picked up an injury we would be battling relegation, this one trip pony has an eye for a player, but thats his limits
a one trip pony heading in a downward direction, with only an injury away from a relegation fight.

I wonder what the players think of this ` play without fear` ` enjoy their football` ` assymetrical shapes` what does this mean?
I dont remember Ferguson, Roy Keane running around and smiling at the opposition, they got stuck in and tackled hard, none of this waiting for the opposition to lose the ball, I assume an assymetrical shape translated from Bobbies Bulls**t is to have your keeper totally exposed, your defenders on the halfway line, were they can easily be outplayed and all bets on the leagues 2nd highest scorer outscoring the opposition. Problem with Martinez is he cant or will not see his style of play isnt working. He looked defeated yesterday, blamed the players and refuses to change
 

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