Roberto Martinez Discussion - Including Live Poll (Poll Reset 1st May)

[jceverton]

The 'debate' about the manager sounds archaic to me now. It WAS a live issue, I suppose, for many fans and the hacks in the press looking to get a lynching up and running. However, Saturday's result, the securing of a Wembley game, and the real possibility of a cup final and then lifting a trophy, coupled with Kenwright's words post match, have incinerated any challenge to Martinez's status.

It's done and it's dusted. Two cup runs into the final stages and more than likely a top half finish is no basis to change a manager on. He'll be here for another season at least (and quite rightly so). Anyone rational sees that. If you think that's not so, then it's just blind hatred and wishful thinking.

It would appear to be done and dusted from the club's hierarchy but I don't think that is true from the supporters. We haven't won the cup at the minute we are just in a semi final. If we win the cup then he will win a lot of people over. However to call people who don't think Martinez is up to the task as only adopting that position because of blind hatred is ridiculous.

The manager has some serious flaws and the number of points gained in the league is a better barometer than cup runs. Last season he only managed 47 points, this season he's on target to get about 52 points unless there's a big upturn. Given the players at his disposal that's shocking and not good enough. Ask yourself if he'd have been in charge of Leicester city's squad would he have them 5 points clear at the top?

 

[MikeH72]

Don't know if it's already been put up:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...ez-poor-home-record-people-pitch-perform.html

Everton captain Phil Jagielka has defended manager Roberto Martinez by admitting players cannot only take credit for good performances but must shoulder a fair share of blame for poor ones too.

Toffees fans are on a high after booking a first trip to Wembley in four years, where they will face Manchester United or West Ham in the FA Cup semi-final after beating Chelsea at the weekend.

But in the preceding seven days the number of dissenters calling for Martinez to be replaced grew to its highest level after a late collapse from 2-0 up against West Ham saw them lose 3-2 in the Premier League, with Kevin Mirallas sent off.

Reports also began to emerge claiming the players were losing faith in Martinez's open approach to football and wanted to be more pragmatic at times.

There were obviously no such criticisms following the win over Chelsea, in which striker Romelu Lukaku, Aaron Lennon and Jagielka all starred and after which chairman Bill Kenwright spoke out publicly in support of his manager.

But Jagielka knows it will only take another poor display - with Arsenal the visitors this weekend - for the tide to turn against Martinez again.

'In that position you are judged on how you affect the game and unfortunately, with the way criticisms went and what happened last week, conceding three goals in the last 12 minutes, obviously people were quick to forget we were down to 10 men for the majority of the game,' said the Everton captain.

'Obviously the manager has to take some responsibility because that's his role but to the same extent, we're the people out on the pitch and we have to perform.'

'You can't throw all the blame the manager's way, there has to be a pretty even split between him and the players.

'I understand that people will do that, because that's the way football is.'

Oh look, the church mouse can speak

 

[BlueToff]

Yes but he still blames Martinez for half of it so not exactly a endorsement of his methods

How does he? He says that the players and manager are "to the same extent" responsible...

Which is entirely correct.

 

[davek]

It would appear to be done and dusted from the club's hierarchy but I don't think that is true from the supporters. We haven't won the cup at the minute we are just in a semi final. If we win the cup then he will win a lot of people over. However to call people who don't think Martinez is up to the task as only adopting that position because of blind hatred is ridiculous.

The manager has some serious flaws and the number of points gained in the league is a better barometer than cup runs. Last season he only managed 47 points, this season he's on target to get about 52 points unless there's a big upturn. Given the players at his disposal that's shocking and not good enough. Ask yourself if he'd have been in charge of Leicester city's squad would he have them 5 points clear at the top?

That's true, but the devil is in the detail for this season at least. I dont think there's anyone who'd claim that we deserve the points total we have given the number of dodgy time keeping and last second offside goals we've experienced. At the VERY least, if the officials had done a reasonable job we'd have another 6 points and be 7th. I'd also say that the last two seasons cant be taken as a block: they're chalk and cheese in terms of the type of football played and what we deserve out of games. The table mightn't lie, but there's no context to it either. I'd say our performances are consistently of a high standard and that's another sort of barometer of where we are.

 

[BlueToff]

It would appear to be done and dusted from the club's hierarchy but I don't think that is true from the supporters. We haven't won the cup at the minute we are just in a semi final. If we win the cup then he will win a lot of people over. However to call people who don't think Martinez is up to the task as only adopting that position because of blind hatred is ridiculous.

The manager has some serious flaws and the number of points gained in the league is a better barometer than cup runs. Last season he only managed 47 points, this season he's on target to get about 52 points unless there's a big upturn. Given the players at his disposal that's shocking and not good enough. Ask yourself if he'd have been in charge of Leicester city's squad would he have them 5 points clear at the top?

Please do not compare anybody in this league to Leicester.

Ranieri had been a flop with Greece. Would you have been happy if we had appointed him in the summer?

What that side is doing is fantastic and all the best to them. But the likelihood of anything like that happening again any time soon is about 1/1000.

 

[BlueToff]

That's true, but the devil is in the detail for this season at least. I dont think there's anyone who'd claim that we deserve the points total we have given the number of dodgy time keeping and last second offside goals we've experienced. At the VERY least, if the officials had done a reasonable job we'd have another 6 points and be 7th. I'd also say that the last two seasons cant be taken as a block: they're chalk and cheese in terms of the type of football played and what we deserve out of games. The table mightn't lie, but there's no context to it either. I'd say our performances are consistently of a high standard and that's another sort of barometer of where we are.

That's what my main positive is with RM.

He's improved the football played 10 fold compared to last year - mainly in terms of attacking.

Now, I'm willing to give him the time to bring the defence with it as well.

If he hasn't done that by the middle of next season then it'll probably be time for him to go.

 

[Woolly Blue]

Why can't they just enjoy an Everton win WB ?

I'm sure they did Changy.
Mind you, why can't you stay on topic and why can't I resist thread banning you ?

Other questions may be asked, or will they ?

 

[Blue Cheese]

We beat Chelsea lads, forget the previous 18 months it was an anomaly.

 

[paulus]

Ok I don t agree that Marinez do not have scaut nose , He bring some great cheep players and i really don want to become club like Cheski or plastic City , if is expensive buy it kinda club. Lukaku for hes ability was cheep for us , Besic 4 mill,for I think that we all all surprised hes jump in form from last season , Lennon good call ect ect. Marinez has great nose for players je jas i hink even good work releshionshio with players , lot of players have improved . So we have players , we need to keep them and back up fullbacks and one creator like Silva , Pjanic , Eriksen, ( you know , that class would do us wonders) because I m sure that Barkley is better from deep on CM, Mcharty deep ,Besic Box to Box and Barkley can use hes speed from deep better then on ATM ( think That is trio for future). I will say it again Martinez has a nose for this things and this money could help him , but I dont wanna to see now crazy buying and changing what is good in team. Maybe ,one great CD , Fullbacks back ups , Goalie is kinda a must ( I like Robles but I think we can snatch Begovic from Chelsea maybe even on loan wih option to buy) One class assist ATM, and striker who can make change Lukaku because we are injury away from playing Kone, and keep core. Now what Martinez is really bad is hes guts calls on game time and not having at all defensive plan when we lead. Maybe defensive coach can change that. Point is apar from hes bad suns and sometimes overplaying some players and kinda experiments Martinez do from time to time , hes good in many other things . Now maybe some or most of u don t agree on what i write and what players we should try to bring and I would love to hear what othr prople thinks . I think nearly all will agree tha we want to keep core and dont want to become City or Chelsea. West Ham and Leicester City are show the way , that it can be done without spending crazy ( but I will acknowledge that it is also season where big four or five play all bad). Martinez need to find defensive coach and maybe one class CD. If we did not spill so much points in last 10 - 20 min on at list 5 games. we would be in CL run , so this team need few players and a little tweak. We dom need to be spending money to buy , we need spend to keep .To keep Lukaku especially. i see Marinez said hes not sure he can keep him and Yarmolenko rumor is on . If we can bring Yarmolenko and keep Lukau , now that would be attack

 

[davek]

20m in.

Shows how RM can take a joke at his own expense.

Young lad at the end of RM's press conference 'young Roberto' finishing off the session: "Baines was phenomenal".

 

[jceverton]

Please do not compare anybody in this league to Leicester.

Ranieri had been a flop with Greece. Would you have been happy if we had appointed him in the summer?

What that side is doing is fantastic and all the best to them. But the likelihood of anything like that happening again any time soon is about 1/1000.

What I'm comparing is how much one manager gets from lesser resources to how much Martinez gets from greater resources. I think it's a fair point to make.

Martinez has under achieved. The questions then are do you think Martinez will over achieve next season and should he be given the chance to? My view would be no, yours I'm guessing is yes?

 

[jceverton]

Please do not compare anybody in this league to Leicester.

Ranieri had been a flop with Greece. Would you have been happy if we had appointed him in the summer?

What that side is doing is fantastic and all the best to them. But the likelihood of anything like that happening again any time soon is about 1/1000.

What I'm comparing is how much one manager gets from lesser resources to how much Martinez gets from greater resources. I think it's a fair point to make.

Martinez has under achieved. The questions then are do you think Martinez will over achieve next season and should he be given the chance to? My view would be no, yours I'm guessing is yes?

 

[ncblue]

We beat Chelsea lads, forget the previous 18 months it was an anomaly.

Exactly. Only thing that gives me hope is that we have Moshiri at the helm now. His body language when Bill was waxing lyrically about Martinez the other day spoke volumes.

 

[lancs blue]

I somehow think we'll still be having the same conversation next year with Martinez in charge.

 

[jceverton]

That's true, but the devil is in the detail for this season at least. I dont think there's anyone who'd claim that we deserve the points total we have given the number of dodgy time keeping and last second offside goals we've experienced. At the VERY least, if the officials had done a reasonable job we'd have another 6 points and be 7th. I'd also say that the last two seasons cant be taken as a block: they're chalk and cheese in terms of the type of football played and what we deserve out of games. The table mightn't lie, but there's no context to it either. I'd say our performances are consistently of a high standard and that's another sort of barometer of where we are.

I agree that the attacking side of the game has showed an improvement this season. However you're making all sorts of justifications to explain why the points total should be higher. I disagree with that because over the course of 30 odd games you end up with what you deserve. Defending, fitness, tactical awareness of how to change games, team selection, ability to hold onto a lead they are all as important a part of football as attacking play. I don't think we've made any noticeable improvements in these areas this season.